OK im in windows now, looking at nvidia display settings for dual displays (i.e. each monitor seperately)

AA settings NO
dithering NO
GPU scaling YES
color range YES

Definitly far less things you can change under windows than linux (with nvidia card/drivers)
also not just the above, eg a lot more info about the monitors/gfx card is viewable on linux.

though does this make it easier to use?
Prolly not, as having more options prolly confuses absolute beginners

MAC - easiest to use, least customization etc // this is perhaps why its my least favorite OS
WINDOWS - middling to use, decent customization etc
LINUX - easiest to use, most customization etc

OK im in windows now, looking at nvidia display settings for dual displays (i.e. each monitor seperately)

AA settings NO
dithering NO
GPU scaling YES
color range YES

Definitly far less things you can change under windows than linux (with nvidia card/drivers)
also not just the above, eg a lot more info about the monitors/gfx card is viewable on linux.

though does this make it easier to use?
Prolly not, as having more options prolly confuses absolute beginners

Exactly. You summarized my whole argumentation about obeying simple cognitive psychology laws.
It seems the Ubuntu HCI people have a rather different view of their field than the Windows HCI people.

It's not, you have to perform at the very least 7 clicks to install the most basic things you need (codecs,...)
That doesn't even include the text you need to type.I see that EasyUbuntu is no longer maintained, so OK, you have to copy two lines of text and paste them into a window. Considering the massive legal hurdles, I'd say that's pretty damn easy; easier than installing a working DVD player on Windows, at least.

I read you post in which you claimed that good enough emulators were available in binary form. I seriously disagree. We clearly have a different opinion on good enough.What issues did you have with pSX and ePSXe?

Maybe in your perfect Ubuntu world.In the Ubuntu world where a self-appointed "power user" hasn't broken things by manually editing config files he has no business editing.

That's not what I meant with streaming!Then what did you mean?

Oh yes, because that's way easier. Not. It's more or less comparable.*sigh*
Assuming that something went and killed itself due to your mucking around, quoting an xrandr command over the phone is way, way easier than trying to tell someone how to edit xorg.conf, yes.

I guess you're pretty damn sure every home user is using Linux by now.Ironically, they are.

Exactly. You summarized my whole argumentation about obeying simple cognitive psychology laws.
It seems the Ubuntu HCI people have a rather different view of their field than the Windows HCI people. NVidia design their own display configuration application, not Canonical. It seems to me that you're completely ignorant about pretty much anything pertaining to Linux and refuse to do research because you're a "power user" and thus already know best. Alternatively, you're a pretty good troll.

How can that be wrong? Just count the number of times you open up the terminal a week in Ubuntu and in Windows. Here, it is a 100:1 ratio.
If you don't use the terminal frequently, you're just using Ubuntu to surf the web, editing some documents or whatever. That's fine, but the world's moved on and the focus is on entertainement and interdevice operation. When it gets just a tiny bit more advanced, like the dvd example, or the emulator example, or setting up dual-screen, or 5.1 audio on a non-supported card, or getting network printers to work from every computer in the network, or streaming movies and it doesn't work immediately out of the box, then you are forced to use the terminal.

I watch DVDs, have 5.1 surround sound, network printers available working from every computer (well, not my daughters iPod, which doesn't seem able to print) and I use a dual screens and a bluetooth magic trackpad. You know, not only have I never used the CLI to set those things up, I don't even know how. Virtually everything just worked out of the box except for printer setup and the dual monitors, both of which required opening a single dialog box and clicking some buttons. I stream movies with no problem, except when the internet gets congested (feh, Rogers).

I also have a full recording studio rig set up with external MIDI controllers and ADC/DAC inputs. Software worked after a simple point-and-click install.

Sure, I use the CLI 100% of the time to do work -- Ubuntu, Windows, or Mac. I do it because of habit (vim works best from the CLI in my opinion), not need. I could do my job -- which is not surfing the web, but developing the software that makes the Ubuntu desktop experience -- without ever cracking open a terminal. Seeing that green-on-black text switches my brain into developer mode.

I think your claims are false, unfounded and unjustified. If you are basing them on years-old experience or worse, hearsay, well, the world has moved on.

I just spent a week with a few hundred very hard core Ubuntu developers (you can't get any more hard core than a Canonical development sprint). I rarely saw a command-line terminal outside of my own machine, and I only use the CLI out of a 30-odd year habit.

I would suggest you seriously reconsider your definition of hardcore. How about coding an improved NFS implementation in the kernel, or writing a device driver for a new 3D magnetic accoustic tracker. I rarely ever saw a GUI interface on the screens of the people I worked with. They coded this stuff in emacs or vi and were able to instantly compile and preview their changes on another box through a network simulator (NFS case). They had written several complicated scripts that made this seamless way of development possible.

I do not need to redefine hardcore. I spent the week with two regular kernel contributors who are responsible for much of the touch device drivers in Linux, one of the x.org maintainers who is responsible for touch (XI2.1), one of the GTK maintainers, and the desktop experience design team. That was one room. The entire Ubuntu kernel team was in another room. Do you know what Canonical does?

I fully agree with Valderman so I only reply on this:

I admit my style of speech is pragmatic at times and not always folded in wad. But really, offensive?

Did you really have to put me on the same level as someone who said that being gay revolved around raping children and having aids?

No. Remember what you said:

As a side note, anyone who thinks that open source means "l33t dude doing whatever" should seriously gtfo of any discussion on the subject until he's done a little bit of research.


So basically, you just said 'get the fuck out of here'. Nice argumentation you've got there.

This is not what he said.

* Basically, he said that everybody who is contesting Linux/Ubuntu for bias and prejudice and dubious reasons rooting in ignorance, should be silent.
* You misunderstood this, because "everybody gtfo" is not what he said.
* Then, I gave examples of other bad ignorances so you better understand what I mean.

So, unfortunately, you got _him_ wrong, and in my effort to make you understand him, you also got _me_ wrong, fabulously wrong. Neither was that an affront, nor did I claim that you think being gay is the same as being pedophile.

Typical users lost their CDs, they don't know their hardware specs, they won't be installing drivers, and they won't be rebuilding kernels. Those users typically can't install windows and have all hardware work, but they can install Linux and have all hardware work. They don't have odd custom built computers with obscure components. They get some Dell or Asus or what ever, something that is very popular, and consequently well tested and Linux-supported out of the box.

The problem are all the people who want to, with minimal effort, feel like they are power users and can do anything. These people are not comparing usability - they are comparing effort it takes to believe that you can do anything that can be done.

[Exactly. You summarized my whole argumentation about obeying simple cognitive psychology laws.
It seems the Ubuntu HCI people have a rather different view of their field than the Windows HCI people.

But Im more of a windows person

Ironically, they are.

To formulate it in words you and Luckless understand:
By far, the most home users use Windows as their OS. Everybody who denies that should gtfo here and do some research.

NVidia design their own display configuration application, not Canonical. It seems to me that you're completely ignorant about pretty much anything pertaining to Linux and refuse to do research because you're a "power user" and thus already know best. Alternatively, you're a pretty good troll.

X11 wasn't developed by Canonical either. So should we exclude that from our comparison too then? How are you going to review the Ubuntu GUI then???
Those things, just like the nvidia control panel, constitute the whole experience for an OS as well. You don't just judge Ubuntu by it's core functionality, but what you can do with it as a whole. Same goes for windows.

Again, accusing me of being a troll. Please leave that for the mods to decide. They could take a look at my posts anytime and conclude that I did nothing wrong. I kept things civilized, made good points to express my opinion, etc...

This is not what he said.

* Basically, he said that everybody who is contesting Linux/Ubuntu for bias and prejudice and dubious reasons rooting in ignorance, should be silent.
* You misunderstood this, because "everybody gtfo" is not what he said.
* Then, I gave examples of other bad ignorances so you better understand what I mean.

So, unfortunately, you got _him_ wrong, and in my effort to make you understand him, you also got _me_ wrong, fabulously wrong. Neither was that an affront, nor did I claim that you think being gay is the same as being pedophile.

No, no, I understood both him and you perfectly fine. Ofcourse he started it, with his 'gtfo'. Nobody should tell me to gtfo on a discussion board, the sole purpose whereof is discussion. I can merely conclude that you're not here to discuss. You're here to get your ego boosted by all people who have the same opinion like you do. This is obvious for everyone. If you look back at your previous posts, notice how you selectively quote some parts in my post and knock those down, while I have always tried to reply on every point you mentioned. It takes a man to admit that you're wrong. And I did it multiple times throughout this thread. You and him on the other hand just continued to attack me, even personally, while some of the points I made were right or at least to be argued about.
I will continue this discussion with the other people only, unless you and your other companion, decide to keep it civilized.

Ironically, they are.

To formulate it in words you and Luckless understand:
By far, the most home users use Windows as their desktop</span> OS. Everybody who denies that should gtfo here and do some research.FTFY<br /> <br /> <blockquote><blockquote>NVidia design their own display configuration application, not Canonical. It seems to me that you&#39;re completely ignorant about pretty much anything pertaining to Linux and refuse to do research because you&#39;re a &quot;power user&quot; and thus already know best. Alternatively, you&#39;re a pretty good troll.<br /> <br /> X11 wasn&#39;t developed by Canonical either. So should we exclude that from our comparison too then? How are you going to review the Ubuntu GUI then???So now Ubuntu has to answer for every piece of third party software you can install on it? Seriously.<br /> <br /> <blockquote>Those things, just like the nvidia control panel, constitute the whole experience for an OS as well. You don&#39;t just judge Ubuntu by it&#39;s core functionality, but what you can do with it as a whole. Same goes for windows.However, you explicitly blamed the Ubuntu HCI people for the NVidia control panel. No manner of backpedaling will fix the fact that you don&#39;t have the slightest clue here.<br /> <br /> <blockquote><blockquote>This is not what he said. <br /> <br /> * Basically, he said that everybody who is contesting Linux/Ubuntu for bias and prejudice and dubious reasons rooting in ignorance, should be silent.<br /> * You misunderstood this, because &quot;everybody gtfo&quot; is not what he said. <br /> * Then, I gave examples of other bad ignorances so you better understand what I mean. <br /> <br /> So, unfortunately, you got _him_ wrong, and in my effort to make you understand him, you also got _me_ wrong, fabulously wrong. Neither was that an affront, nor did I claim that you think being gay is the same as being pedophile.<br /> <br /> No, no, I understood both him and you perfectly fine. Ofcourse he started it, with his &#39;gtfo&#39;. Nobody should tell me to gtfo on a discussion board, the sole purpose whereof is discussion. I can merely conclude that you&#39;re not here to discuss. You&#39;re here to get your ego boosted by all people who have the same opinion like you do. This is obvious for everyone. If you look back at your previous posts, notice how you selectively quote some parts in my post and knock those down, <span style="font-weight:bold;">while I have always tried to reply on every point you mentioned.</span> It takes a man to admit that you&#39;re wrong. And I did it multiple times throughout this thread. You and him on the other hand just continued to attack me, even personally, while some of the points I made were right or at least to be argued about.<br /> I will continue this discussion with the other people only, unless you and your other companion, decide to keep it civilized.<br /> …except those points you don&#39;t feel like replying to. Like, for example, why you&#39;re using deprecated configuration methods and then blaming Canonical for it, or why you&#39;re going out of your way to compile a PSX emulator that&#39;s far worse than the two most well-known ones.