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Carmack on government

Started by October 28, 2010 07:27 PM
218 comments, last by trzy 14 years ago
Quote: Original post by smr
And one thing kinda off topic. I'm tired of the people out there who are calling for a "common sense" solution to every problem. People: our problems are complex. If all we need is common sense to solve our problems, then we wouldn't have the issues we've got. Almost everyone's got this type of sense. That's why we call it common sense. I believe that if someone's trying to sell you a "common sense" solution to a complex and sophisticated issue, they're probably trying to pull the wool over your eyes.


That is without doubt one of the best things I've ever read in the longue. My hat is off to you sir.

if you think programming is like sex, you probably haven't done much of either.-------------- - capn_midnight
Quote: Original post by Antheus
Quote: Original post by Promit
Well no. Inventing it apparently creates a deficit, so we have to discontinue social security and declare war on Iran to counteract that. That's what I'm told, anyway.


Well, yes. To make more money, president needs to go to Federal reserve and take out a loan. This loan comes with interest that needs to be paid. The loan is paid back through gross income of the country. If there isn't enough economic growth, then the situation is similar to wage stagnation due to inflation - the 2.3% raise every year doesn't increase salary fast enough to compensate inflation, so the $500/month loan starts getting bigger.

The important thing to keep in mind is that this arrangement of how things are done is entirely voluntary. If the US government (actually, congress) decided to, it could spend as much as it likes, the Fed be damned. After all, they can simply change the laws that define how the Fed operates.

Unlimited spending is not a good idea of course, but the benchmark should be whether the country's economic resources are fully utilised. When resources are idle - as right now in the US, this is very strong evidence that the government deficit is too small.

Quote:
The reason above scheme is employed is to prevent printing of money, which would lead to hyperinflation.

This is nothing else but an ideological myth; it is propagated to reduce the ability of government to implement effective economic policies.

The truth is that when government does deficit spending, it has a choice between issuing a matching amount of treasury bonds, or not issuing those bonds (or anything in between). The inflationary impact of the government budget is almost entirely independent of whether or not it issues those bonds.

Therefore, singling out deficit spending without bonds issue as "printing money" is to misunderstand how the monetary system works.

Quote: Original post by LessBread
Consider, on one hand he demanded the ruthless prosecution of the wars and the strict enforcement of border security, while on the other he railed against paying the taxes that fund those efforts.

A fine point, not sure if you're aware of it yourself: those taxes don't actually fund anything, at least not in a financial sense. The taxes simply take spending power away from the non-government sector. The government can then use the resulting spending gap to buy the goods necessary to implement its programs, including the wars.

Unfortunately, I don't have a good shorthand that could replace "fund" with something more correct.

Quote: Original post by smr
And one thing kinda off topic. I'm tired of the people out there who are calling for a "common sense" solution to every problem. People: our problems are complex. If all we need is common sense to solve our problems, then we wouldn't have the issues we've got. Almost everyone's got this type of sense. That's why we call it common sense. I believe that if someone's trying to sell you a "common sense" solution to a complex and sophisticated issue, they're probably trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

I respectfully disagree.

The problems themselves aren't that complex, and there are common sense solutions. The difficulty is that people disagree on what the issues are and what an ideal world looks like. In other words, different opinions and different premises make things difficult.

In fact, I would take quite the opposite stance from what you're saying: the people who claim that the problems we're facing are overly complex are the ones trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

For example, high unemployment is great if you're a large employer of low-skilled labour - but of course you don't want to say so out loud, because the backlash would be huge. So instead you will argue that unemployment is a complex issue, and that one can't really do anything about it. That's a great way to stop people from thinking about solutions to the problem.
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Quote: Original post by Prefect
I respectfully disagree.

The problems themselves aren't that complex, and there are common sense solutions. The difficulty is that people disagree on what the issues are and what an ideal world looks like. In other words, different opinions and different premises make things difficult.

In fact, I would take quite the opposite stance from what you're saying: the people who claim that the problems we're facing are overly complex are the ones trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

For example, high unemployment is great if you're a large employer of low-skilled labour - but of course you don't want to say so out loud, because the backlash would be huge. So instead you will argue that unemployment is a complex issue, and that one can't really do anything about it. That's a great way to stop people from thinking about solutions to the problem.


I would probably land on the common sense solution side too. While some problems may seem complex, that does not mean they can't have a simple or elegant solution. Any programmer sees evidence of this every day (that complex problems can have very simple solutions).

I think complex solutions serve more to separate the politics from the public than to provide service in some way. A good example is the health care bill. Not arguing its pros or cons, but people for and against the bill must admit that it is far more bloated than it need be. Bloated solutions also allow for pork spending to slip into law very easily. I'd much rather pass 30-100 1-10 page bills into law than to pass 1 2000+ page bill. It keeps things nice and compartmentalized, allows us to easily pass the things everyone can agree on quickly, easily repeal parts of a larger network of bills that are no longer needed, prevent pork as it would be more obvious in a 10 page bill, and would give more time to debating things that are actually holding points for both sides.

We wouldn't have "healthcare is bad because abortion is bad" arguments. Instead we'd have most of the healthcare bill passed, and "abortion is bad because of something relevant to abortion" arguments.

Only using healthcare as an example before people jump on my back. The same arguments could be made of any number of bills brought to congress.
Quote: Original post by StarFoxNow
Quote: Original post by LessBread
There's no point in refuting an inconsistent argument. I don't care what you think.


Can you be specific on what is inconsistent?

You care enough to downplay my post with multiple choice, but do not refute as you claim you can.


It's inconsistent to rant against taxes while demanding rigorous government enforcement of laws. Your claims about Democrats looking for ways to crucify soldiers is patently untrue: 111th Congress Achieves Banner Year on Veterans Legislation. Your claims about Democrats and guns is also patently untrue: Obama Spurns Gun Control. Your claims about Democrats and illegal immigration are also patently untrue: Deportation of illegal immigrants increases under Obama administration, New Data on Federal Court Prosecutions Reveal Non-Violent Immigration Prosecutions Up. Your claims are incorrect. The degree of emotion with which you deliver them suggests you've picked them up from talk radio and are repeating them without giving them any thought or doing any research to verify them.

Quote: Original post by StarFoxNow
Quote: Original post by LessBread
No, I skimmed them.

You make stuff up in your mind to fill in what you didn't read? Good idea. After I clearly denounce police state and compare it to mafia, you think I am in favor?

keep skimming and you will claim I am the emperor of Japan.


I just demonstrated that your rant was based on several fabrications, so you ought to go easy when accusing others of making stuff up. I've been around long enough to recognize that when people start ranting about welfare and pyramids schemes and hordes of illegals swarming the borders and ghettos and so on, they usually also harbor support for a police state as necessary to protect "us" from "them".

Quote: Original post by StarFoxNow
Quote: Original post by LessBread
You're an immigrant who hates other immigrants,

I am a legal immigrant. I do not come here to abuse hospital ER room then not pay. I do not come here to plop out a baby then collect money for it from the government. Yes I hate people who do this, not because they are immigrants (like me) but because they abuse the USA for their gain.

You consider me radical but to me someone who illegally enters a country and takes advantage is radical.


I don't consider you radical. I consider you reactionary. I don't consider people who come here illegally radical either. I consider them desperate.

Quote: Original post by StarFoxNow
Quote: Original post by LessBread
you think that money is a commodity rather than a contract

Where do you form your opinion on my knowledge of money? More assumed thoughts go into your head from skimming?


"They want to give stuff out, but WE have to pay for it in our tax. They are giving gifts not with their own money but with ours."

Quote: Original post by StarFoxNow
Quote: Original post by LessBread
I'm responding to your initial post, not the backpeddling in subsequent posts.

Can you be specific on back peddling? More assumed thought from skimming?


"BTW I do not agree with the wars."

Yes but you agree with killing civilians...

"I believe civilians are fighting our troops in Iraq."

Wikileaks: Civilians gunned down at checkpoints

Iraq war logs: Civilians gunned down at checkpoints

Secret Iraq war files offer grim new details

Iraq files reveal checkpoint deaths

Quote: Original post by StarFoxNow
Quote: Original post by LessBread
The "goons" you defend for killing civilian combatants are the same "goons" forcing you to pay taxes at gun point.


No, the military does not arrest me if I do not pay tax. You are exactly the democrat that I hate. You call the soliders "goons" for defending themselves. You ASSUME they are sport murdering. More thoughts democrates probably assume from skimming.


The mafia doesn't arrest you either yet you compared the IRS with the mafia. This all began with your emotional rejoinder to my post regarding the use of mercenaries in Iraq and Afghanistan, as if that had any bearing on US soldiers.

As for "sport murdering", US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies', ...

Quote: Original post by StarFoxNow
Do you know the fighting in Iraq is with civilians? They are armed with bolt action and AK rifles. They set up IEDs. They are "civilians" but not pacifist you have in your mind.


Who's mind reading now?

Quote: Original post by StarFoxNow
You have not provided your alternative solution on how to deal with civilians that are trying to kill you.


The alternative is to not invade their country under false pretenses and to get the hell out otherwise.

Quote: Original post by StarFoxNow
Quote: Original post by LessBread
If you're against the police state and the war, defending the thuggery used to prosecute war is a strange way of making the point.

I am against the purpose of the war yes. I am not against soldiers shooting people who are trying to shoot them.


If you were against the war, then you would have responded differently to my remarks about the use of mercenaries.

Quote: Original post by StarFoxNow
Quote: Original post by LessBread
Finger pointing: Identifying false causes of financial crisis,

So you are saying trillion dollar war, housing collapse did not affect economy? Or just disagreeing automatically with anything I say? Government DID sue banks to force them to loan to the poor. This is a fact, not opinion.


I'm disagreeing with your attack on the CRA and Barney Frank, while forgetting how much George W. Bush promoted home ownership etc. If it's a fact, then support it with confirming reports.

Quote: Original post by StarFoxNow
Quote: Original post by LessBread
and mischaracterizing social security ...

I believe I describe it very accurately. It is a pyramid scheme. It is not the same as putting the money in an investment like your house. There is no real asset, just people paying in in hopes that more will pay in below them.

It has worked time (pyramids work for a while) due to mandatory pay in, with young "pyramid bottom" in greater numbers than old "pyramid top", but now we see it fall apart as all pyramids do once there are too many people ready for the payout.

For a pyramid scheme to work forever there must be massive human growth forever to ensure the bottom is much larger than the top. Even if this massive human population growth is maintained for a while it cannot be maintained forever (or else exponential growth would cause entire universe to be flooded with people and food supply would give out). So destined to collapse no matter what.


Others have already demolished this claim. Social Security is no more a pyramid scheme then liability insurance is a pyramid scheme. The reason there is so much hatred for Social Security is because the financiers on Wall Street hate the fact that they don't get a cut of it. They have spent millions of dollars to fund a decades long propaganda campaign training the public to hate it too.
"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man
Wall Street financiers dislike Social Security? That's news to me. The titans of finance -- the hedge fund managers and investment bank executives -- are champions of liberal causes and are more than willing to support such programs.
----Bart
Quote: Original post by trzy
The titans of finance -- the hedge fund managers and investment bank executives -- are champions of liberal causes and are more than willing to support such programs.
Who, specifically?
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Quote: Original post by Promit
Quote: Original post by trzy
The titans of finance -- the hedge fund managers and investment bank executives -- are champions of liberal causes and are more than willing to support such programs.
Who, specifically?


I know that warren buffet and bill gates both donate huge sums of money and significant amounts of their time.

The Giving Pledge has a lot of them too(started by BG and WB)

If you are not in the know, the giving pledge is a pledge to give half of your wealth/assets to philanthropy over the course of your lifetime.
Buffet, Gates, Soros, Turner

They aren't afraid to take a public stand.

The Koch's, the Walton's et al., on the other hand, prefer to lurk in the shadows...

Muhahahahahaha.... [grin]
"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man
Quote: Original post by LessBread
Others have already demolished this claim. Social Security is no more a pyramid scheme then liability insurance is a pyramid scheme. The reason there is so much hatred for Social Security is because the financiers on Wall Street hate the fact that they don't get a cut of it. They have spent millions of dollars to fund a decades long propaganda campaign training the public to hate it too.


My perception has always been that the right would love to get rid of Social Security but cannot actually touch it for fear of losing the retired vote. Instead, they have opted to go about its destruction in a roundabout manner: claim that it is a financially nonviable program. Call it a pyramid scheme and rant about how its going bankrupt. The solution? Privatization, obviously. The ruse is transparent, and yet no-one seems to call out the people making these claims.
Quote: Original post by Promit
Quote: Original post by trzy
The titans of finance -- the hedge fund managers and investment bank executives -- are champions of liberal causes and are more than willing to support such programs.
Who, specifically?


Some of the biggest hedge fund donors include George Soros, Jim Simmons (who runs Renaissance Technologies, a hedge fund that pioneered high-speed trading and on some days has accounted for the majority of trading volume on NYSE), Eric Mindich (formerly of Goldman Sachs, another famous Democratic stronghold), Michael Sacks, Henry Laufer, Scott Nathan, Phil Falcone, etc.

Among the titans of finance, Democrats can easily find support from private equity firms. David Rubenstein of the Carlyle Group is a prominent example (and a former Carter administration member), as is Steven Rattner (whose wife is the National Finance Chair for the Democratic Party and who Obama tapped for his auto industry task force). David Bonderman, a private equity billionaire, is a reliable Democratic donor in Texas.

Who did you think carried Democrats in the northeast? Ghetto scrubs? Financiers tend to love the Democrats. Industrialists less so. I don't know why this surprises you. Maybe you thought Democrats were looking out for the little guy.
----Bart

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