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Original post by owl Well, if it's worth anything, I was comming home from work when I saw the towers falling in a shop's TV, and I felt like dying. I honestly believe that the world would be a nicer place if all the muslim governments just dissapeared.

Theocracies in general tbh. Things like the vatican could be exceptions because you just have to walk 200 feet and you're in a democracy again.

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Original post by taby ...a lot of today's pressing issues seem to revolve around the date 9/11/2001.

Nothing changed on this day, 9 years ago. All that happened were a bunch of people were reminded of issues that have been stewing for 100 years and more. Just go back to World War I. Without WWI, we would have never had WWII. Without WWII, we would have never redrawn the political borders of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, or had the clashing of NATO vs. The Warsaw Pact, or had the shot of steroids directly into the heart of US industrial capacity that led to the supremacy of the automobile and therefore the dependence on oil that we now so desperately grasp from these countries that we eventually screwed up (and others that we didn't). Without redrawing arbitrary squiggly lines on a map to define countries, we would have never had most of the minor tribal conflicts of the 20th century. Without the Reds vs. Everyone chest thumping, we (and in this case, I mean the US) would have never created the modern Mujahadeen and popularized the concept of Jihad in Afghanistan (where do you think Osama Bin Laden learned his tricks? The CIA taught him). So you see, everything is connected. It all comes down to a small group of people, thinking they know better for everyone else, and trying to impose their way on others.

I like this thread, I get where OP is coming from.

History and psychology research has shown us many times that people can be coaxed into doing bad things, in the right environment. We all have the ability to be evil. But no one will admit it, instead we tell ourselves "Those people aren't like us, we're better than that".

So I don't know what I would have done if I had the same life as one of the terrorists. But there's a chance that I would have done the same thing they did. So I guess I'm sorry too!

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Original post by capn_midnight Nothing changed on this day, 9 years ago. All that happened were a bunch of people were reminded of issues that have been stewing for 100 years and more. Just go back to World War I. Without WWI, we would have never had WWII. Without WWII, we would have never redrawn the political borders of Eastern Europe and the Middle East... ...

By that definition nothing changes, ever, which isn't exactly a false statement. Before WW1, you could refer to the rise of European nationalism, and before that expansionistic colonialism, and delve into the question why it was first Europe that developed a technological and cultural edge that allowed it to conquer most of the world...

September 11, 2001 was historical day because it was a point where many different factors came to a head. Many of the underlying causes are still there, but it would be difficult to argue there haven't been substantial changes worldwide fomented by what happened that day. Sure, something equivalent might have happened elsewhere, but the simple fact is that it didn't.

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History and psychology research has shown us many times that people can be coaxed into doing bad things, in the right environment. We all have the ability to be evil. But no one will admit it, instead we tell ourselves "Those people aren't like us, we're better than that".

Alexander Solzhenitsyn wrote something on that subject I'll never forget:

"If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
-from The GULag Archipelago
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To me, I think there's a real tragedy brewing right now with the rise of Islamophic sentiment in the US. People who are afraid of Islam (any Islam) are simply fueling the kind of rage and alienation that drive young Muslims to become terrorists.

Basically, if you are afraid of Islam, the terrorists just won. I wish there was a way to tell people that...

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Original post by Sneftel ...

I am apologizing on the behalf of the terrorists, not consoling on the behalf of the non-terrorists. That's what I meant by "I'm not a Muslim terrorist, but I would like to apologize on their behalf" in the OP.

I am saddened that people died, yes, but I am even more saddened that someone could bring themselves to actually fly a jet into a building.

Do you not feel personal contrition (e.g., real honest to gosh guilt, shame, embarrassment) when you think of the US enslavement of countless Africans? I do, but it's not because I'm American. It's because I'm ashamed to be human in general sometimes.

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Original post by taby I am apologizing on the behalf of the terrorists

A terrorist told you to apologize for him?

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Original post by owl Well, if it's worth anything, I was comming home from work when I saw the towers falling in a shop's TV, and I felt like dying.

I think about the just over 500.000 children under 5, and just under 500.000 older people who died in Iraq, during the 10 years before 9/11, as a result of food and medicine being embargoed by the US. (administrated by the UN, and vetoed by the US.) The cancer rates that 10-doubled, presumably because of the tonnes of uranium shells spent, also makes me sad. No apology can make up for that.
Source: UN and Unicef

But that's just the protracted, agonizing death of a million slightly dark people, halfway around the globe. It wasn't really on tv or anything. On 9/11 approx 3000 rich, white people died on tv, and that changed EVERYTHING!

(I'm sorry about almost-trolling, but sometimes context is good)

The really depressing part is that much worse things are still happening in the world :(

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Original post by Hodgman The sad part is, then when it happened, there was a lot of non-surprise where I came from -- a lot of people seemed to think that, looking at history, something like this was bound to happen sooner or later. The exploitation of fear, loss of liberty and creation of terror that followed wasn't very unexpected either. The bad thing about 9/11 is that it's a great excuse to bring up all the Islamophobia out there... Let's also not forget that following this tragedy of thousands dead, a dangerous fanatical regime exploited fear/terror and went on to forge lies in order to kill a hundred thousand. Also lets remember the half a million the same regime starved to death during the 90's in the same country... Yeah... both sides are guilty. So none of this 'the world would be a nicer place' crap, unless you're getting rid of all the fanatical killers. Ok?

+1..

just as it happened i was "oh no, that'll end in a mess". and it did. it's somehow embarassing to see how the terrorists got exactly what they wanted: get the americans to life in fear over at least one decade (and the next ones won't be better). paranoya everywhere. hate and rasism back everywhere.

it's scary how everyone actually sorta likes it. how they feel comfortable in hating each other, having "an enemy".

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Original post by Prinz Eugn Quote: Original post by pinacolada History and psychology research has shown us many times that people can be coaxed into doing bad things, in the right environment. We all have the ability to be evil. But no one will admit it, instead we tell ourselves "Those people aren't like us, we're better than that". Alexander Solzhenitsyn wrote something on that subject I'll never forget: "If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -from The GULag Archipelago

heh, worst concept ever. I hate when people make large statements about humanity like that. It's as bad as stereotypes. You can say '"Those people aren't like us, we're better than that"' when you are. The problem is most people can't because they can't justify their own beliefs and are sheep.

I blame education honestly. It's been said millions of times. People fear what they don't understand. It's as simple as that.

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Original post by Konfusius A terrorist told you to apologize for him?

LOL no, silly. It was a female terrorist.......