Original post by rnw159 1. Do the companies ever hire designers that don't know the first thing about programming? 2. Wouldn't they make unrealistic demands?
1. That has happened. 2. No, because inexperienced people don't get hired into design positions. If you look around more at posts from aspiring designers, you'll see that they're always bemoaning the difficulty of getting hired right out of college. http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/showfaq.asp?forum_id=101 http://www.sloperama.com/advice.html
As far as I know, most companies don't hire someone with just a game designer formation, and those that do usually have the guy place doodads and make triggers and cutscenes in levels. And even then, if triggers involve scripting languages (which is usually the case in next-gen games) then you need at least a basic programmer formation to be efficient. Of course, there are some odd cases here and there (Apparently Jeff Kaplan and another guy, two game designers at Blizzard, were just loud Everquest players) but I think that's the exception.
That said, when it comes to game design, it's easy to pat ourselves in the back here at GD.net because most of us are programmers or are willing to learn. And I could worsen the case of non-programmer game designers by telling an anecdote about game design brainstorming with another artist, who, had we listened to him, would have sacrificed a good deal of gameplay and customization of our RPG for the sake of graphics and character design. (Which I find unacceptable at every level.) Or I could just point Final Fantasy 13, heh...
However, consider that Shigeru Miamoto, one of, if not THE most influential and iconic video game designer, was originally an art guy if I remember correctly. So, no, it's not impossible to do a great job there if you're not a programmer. Having said that, programming is the most technical aspect of designing a game. I mean, once you know how fast your artist or your musician work, it's not too hard to figure what is too much work for them, but for programming, stuff that looks really simple can be actually very complicated, like cameras and menu screens. So knowing the technicalities of programming is an asset.
I don't think designing a game is not easier then programming. A lead designer has a lot of responsibilities on his shoulders. You have a limited budget, a deadline, and you have to make the best game out of it. Unlike a movies director who can re-do a scene until it's good, a game designer's idea pretty much has to be good from the start because rewriting something like a battle system can take a lot of time and cost a lot of money. If the game flops then people will point their fingers at you.
Well, I am a programmer and I like it that way. Its just that in smaller games maybe garage indie? why would you need a designer. I saw this youtube channel called like jforce games or something, and they had like 3 designers 1 programmer and 1 artist. It seems to me that unless the designer has a special talent, while working on a small team, then they are aren't needed. Don't get me wrong I have no idea what a designer job would be like. Its just that it seems everyone wants to be a designer, and I'm the only one who wants to, and is, a programmer. In an open survey of the word, I bet that there would be much more aspiring game designers than programmers.
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Original post by rnw159Screw game maker.There's your sig quote for the forums :D[/quote]
Original post by rnw159 Well, I am a programmer and I like it that way. Its just that in smaller games maybe garage indie? why would you need a designer. I saw this youtube channel called like jforce games or something, and they had like 3 designers 1 programmer and 1 artist. It seems to me that unless the designer has a special talent, while working on a small team, then they are aren't needed. Don't get me wrong I have no idea what a designer job would be like. Its just that it seems everyone wants to be a designer, and I'm the only one who wants to, and is, a programmer. In an open survey of the word, I bet that there would be much more aspiring game designers than programmers.
This site has probably more programmers per capita than anything else.
Consider that Miyamoto has said he did the graphics for Donkey Kong, and figured much of the gameplay. He has a long-standing reputation for working on his games, to the extent that by the 90's he actually had developed some heart problems. In the end, you do what needs to be done.
Original post by rnw159 1. Do the companies ever hire designers that don't know the first thing about programming? 2. Wouldn't they make unrealistic demands?
1. That has happened. 2. No, because inexperienced people don't get hired into design positions. If you look around more at posts from aspiring designers, you'll see that they're always bemoaning the difficulty of getting hired right out of college. http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/showfaq.asp?forum_id=101 http://www.sloperama.com/advice.html
WoW, I read the site and I'm glad that you mention often that ideas are aren't worth much. I personally am not interested in designing a game like that. I mostly want to program and have a small say in minor details of the game.
One of the nice things about being independent (for now) is most of my ideas get made into games. I just think that a lot of people over value their ideas and believe that they can sit back while, "all the little people can do the work for then" -Tom Sloper.
Thanks for replying.
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Original post by rnw159Screw game maker.There's your sig quote for the forums :D[/quote]
Original post by rnw159 In an open survey of the word, I bet that there would be much more aspiring game designers than programmers.
Yes, that goes without saying.
why is this?
Because of all the questions I've received and seen over the past 10 years, the number of questions from aspiring designers vastly outnumber the questions from aspiring programmers. If you haven't seen this imbalance yourself, then you haven't been looking in the right places.
Original post by rnw159 In an open survey of the word, I bet that there would be much more aspiring game designers than programmers.
Yes, that goes without saying.
why is this?
Because of all the questions I've received and seen over the past 10 years, the number of questions from aspiring designers vastly outnumber the questions from aspiring programmers. If you haven't seen this imbalance yourself, then you haven't been looking in the right places.
No, I have seen it myself. I worded my question wrong (like something in one of your chapters)
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Why do you think that more people aspire to be game developers than to be game programmers?
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Original post by rnw159Screw game maker.There's your sig quote for the forums :D[/quote]
Long ago, I went on a movie writing course. I was actually studying for a creative writing thing and this was one of the components, but it was also open to other people and was notoriously oversubscribed.
So, week 1, 40-something people squeeze into the room. People have brought their mates along who couldn't get on the course themselves. The room is rammed. It's SO COOL, we're all going to be in the movie business. Wooohoo.
Lecturer arrives, opens this HUGE folder full of notes and starts a two hour lecture on things like 9-point story arcs, 3 act formats &c.
Week 2, 8 of us returned. Which is where we got down to the really nitty-gritty stuff.
Apparently the course is like this every time. Everyone and their dog *wants to have written a movie*. Very few people, it turns out, actually want to have to write a movie first.
If you go and ask people if they'd like to be a game designer, they'll say yes. It is, after all, indoor work which doesn't involve touching bodily fluids.
If you ask if they still want to do it if it involves spending years working out how to structure games and studying stuff, I suspect they'll change their minds.
