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Windows 8 Plans Leaked

Started by June 29, 2010 02:55 AM
28 comments, last by shurcool 14 years, 4 months ago
Quote: Original post by geo2004
At what point could it be possible for Microsoft to scratch everything and start from the ground up with a brand new OS? Are they going to make everything backwards compatible for the next 20 years? I always wonder (not just about Microsoft, about many companies) about when a company would gain more from maintaining and supporting old software and start from new.

I'm not saying they should do this now, but it has just crossed my mind and wondered what the pros thought :)


You could always ask Vista, after all it "kinda sorta almost" attempted to do so.

Quote: Original post by capn_midnight
As for adding better search to windows... I don't know, I don't have a problem finding my files. They're all in one place, and they're organized into folders. If I'm looking for a copy of my resume from 3 years ago, it's in "documents/business/2007". In fact, I've turned the disk indexing service off, and have reaped huge performance gains as a result. The rare times I'm searching for files, it's an obscure system file, so it wouldn't be indexed anyway and I'm desperate enough to wait for a disk scan.


Where I start running into problems is with Pictures and Business files. For example, I have a cost model that I'm doing for a division for 2011 for budgetting purposes. Does it go in the cost model folder or the budgetting folder? Do I need to create a new folder now for the division and the year? What If I did it by year for one folder and by BU for another?

Add in the fact that we have about 15 people in our team and everyone is sharing the same files.

Would be easier If I could just tag it with "cost model; budgetting; 2010; division-x; Adam".

Same is true with pictures. I have literally thousands of pictures now. I sort them by date but 4-5 years ago I can't remember what date I went to my brother's birthday party or when I visited my grandparents in maryland. I also don't want to sort through a thousand pictures of my wife's face to find a picture of when I did a groupshot with my parents and our kids. I should be able to type in "Maryland; granddad; <2005-2007>" or "parents; group shot; 2010" and be done with it.
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Quote: Original post by geo2004
At what point could it be possible for Microsoft to scratch everything and start from the ground up with a brand new OS? Are they going to make everything backwards compatible for the next 20 years? I always wonder (not just about Microsoft, about many companies) about when a company would gain more from maintaining and supporting old software and start from new.

I'm not saying they should do this now, but it has just crossed my mind and wondered what the pros thought :)


I thought Vista did that? Aren't they just emulating windows XP if you have an older program?
The problem with breaking backwards compatibility is that you then break your market share. Why do most people keep buying Microsoft Operating Systems? Because most of us have software that runs on them. All our PC games are made for windows, our word processors, and development tools. We buy a new copy of windows because newer programs we want are designed for it, and it will still run our old programs.


If windows 8 won't run 90% of my games and other things I use my computer for the most, then I'm going to be left looking at the whole market. I'm going to have to buy nearly all new software anyway, so 'now' would be a great time to see just what that 'apple thing' has to offer for a personal computer.


So, keeping us all from switching to something else by locking us in with our own software is why Microsoft keeps backwards compatibility, even if it costs them more and leaves major issues with the system.
Old Username: Talroth
If your signature on a web forum takes up more space than your average post, then you are doing things wrong.
Quote: Original post by Extrarius
My experience differs - the problem I see most often is too many "utilities" (most of which the user intentionally installed) running in the system tray which significantly increase time from boot to usable system and consumes significant computer resources thus slowing all other operations. The next most common thing I see is malware of some type similarly consuming excessive computer resources, and third is malware corrupting user settings (on purpose or not) in a way that prevents them from being able to (for ex) run executables.

Very good, very true points. MSI should be an update service so that no app has any reason to keep updaters and what have you running in the system tray just to check for updates (jusched.exe, I'm looking squarely at you!).

Quote: Original post by capn_midnight
As for adding better search to windows... I don't know, I don't have a problem finding my files. They're all in one place, and they're organized into folders. If I'm looking for a copy of my resume from 3 years ago, it's in "documents/business/2007". In fact, I've turned the disk indexing service off, and have reaped huge performance gains as a result. The rare times I'm searching for files, it's an obscure system file, so it wouldn't be indexed anyway and I'm desperate enough to wait for a disk scan.

Most people aren't nearly as organized/anal as you are. Even for those of us who are, though (/Users/oluseyi/Documents/Resume/Archive/2007/PDF - or ...Word, ...Text or ...Pages depending on required format [smile]), some of us enjoy the facility of pervasive search. For instance, on OS X, I do not have a single application pinned to my dock. I use Spotlight as a general-purpose launcher, and will also use it to locate documents whose name and/or location I am not as certain of. Nothing precludes search and organization from peaceful coexistence.

ChurchSkiz also makes fantastic points about multi-presence and massive data sets. I, too, have thousands of pictures; I find iPhoto's "Faces" feature to be quite nifty, letting me find pictures based on who's in them. (It analyzes your pictures and uses facial recognition to extract representative images which you simply need to name, so now you can search for all pictures of John or Sally or Femi trivially.) It can also process GPS data that some camera devices geo-tag pictures with, letting you search by location.

As data sets grow, rigid classification becomes more difficult and search becomes much more powerful.

Quote: Original post by geo2004
At what point could it be possible for Microsoft to scratch everything and start from the ground up with a brand new OS?

They can do it at any time now, thanks to virtualization. Modern incarnations of Windows don't literally contain all the code (and bugs) to run older versions of Windows; they just contain built in virtual machines - best seen in Windows Server 2008 R2. They won't do it any time soon because starting from scratch is an incredibly dumb idea. Code doesn't rust or rot, and new code means new bugs. Why would Microsoft throw away decades of filed-tested code and all the knowledge about real-world usage it represents?
Slightly off-topic, but I hope they get rid of the orb, or at least give you the option to change it to something that doesn't overlap all of my windows. AFAIK the only way to do that currently is to hack the resources in explorer.exe; pain in the ass! I have no idea why microsoft thought it was a good idea to put something that pops several pixels above the UI element it's supposed to be attached to.
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Quote: Original post by djz
Slightly off-topic, but I hope they get rid of the orb, or at least give you the option to change it to something that doesn't overlap all of my windows. AFAIK the only way to do that currently is to hack the resources in explorer.exe; pain in the ass! I have no idea why microsoft thought it was a good idea to put something that pops several pixels above the UI element it's supposed to be attached to.



Erh...




PS - when I talk about searching, I also mean searching in files with more options than parsing through known text formats with the functionality clearly exposed, not hidden like it's the lost city of Zinj in Crichton's Congo. PS - their Search support for compressed folders is screwed up as well, at least when used in legacy mode.

ChurchSkiz - you're way too compulsive with your organizational gusto compared to just about anybody else :). Seems like that's a good thing! I frequently need to search a whole drive or a large directory structure for something specific and I always feel like I have to treat Search as if it was a physically disabled 2 week old lab bred rabbit with Down Syndrome. It just feels awkward until I end up not finding my stuff, at which point it becomes annoying.
Quote: Original post by irreversible
Erh...


Try making it one size smaller. On my desktop I have the taskbar set to that size, but on my laptop, trying to maximize screen real-estate, i have it the size that is a notch smaller than that and the orb pops into the desktop-client area, and annoyingly sits above all the Windows.
Quote:
They're offering an option to reinstall windows, while still keeping your information. Which is a pretty neat idea since the average user will eventually mess something up no matter what OS they're on.


Quote:
Not entirely true. The biggest reason Windows users need to reinstall so frequently is the registry, which eventually gets choked with rubbish entries that users don't know are there or how to remove, and that the system has to search through to find stuff it actually needs. It would be a massive backwards incompatibility change, but eliminating the registry and moving (back) toward siloed per-application settings information as well as making the bulk of application install/uninstall effectively a copy/delete operation would significantly lessen the need for whole-OS reinstall.


The reset button is when your Microsoft machine gets infected with trojans and viruses. :)

And I'm serious. It used to be that you only had to worry about clicking on email attachments.
Now, you just have to simply visit a rogue website, and you'll get injected by trojan. That's ridiculous.

And it'll probably cut down on support time. Microsoft can just tell you to push the magic reset button to fix all problems!

[Edited by - samster581 on June 29, 2010 7:00:23 PM]
Quote: Original post by Oluseyi
Quote: Original post by geo2004
At what point could it be possible for Microsoft to scratch everything and start from the ground up with a brand new OS?

They can do it at any time now, thanks to virtualization. Modern incarnations of Windows don't literally contain all the code (and bugs) to run older versions of Windows; they just contain built in virtual machines - best seen in Windows Server 2008 R2. They won't do it any time soon because starting from scratch is an incredibly dumb idea. Code doesn't rust or rot, and new code means new bugs. Why would Microsoft throw away decades of filed-tested code and all the knowledge about real-world usage it represents?

To make newer and cleaner APIs?

For example, how often do you see a screensaver come up, or a windows update, etc. while someone's presenting. It's mainly because the _OS_ doesn't know the user is doing a presentation (and of course that he didn't prepare well enough).

In an ideal world anyway...

Edit: Another example, each laptop manufacturer tends to include its own crappy software/drivers for its "custom" parts; like a backlit keyboard controlled via an ambient light sensor. This should be a part of the OS, well integrated, accessible and not a "hack" as they are now imo.

Edit 2: +1 example, each IM app reinvents the wheel to determine if the user is away. Shouldn't the OS be responsible for this and the IM apps poll OS via an API. So you have to change your auto-away time in one place rather than in every app you install.

[Edited by - shurcool on June 30, 2010 12:54:33 AM]

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