Do you really need to save the world/day/kingdom/universe for your accomplishments to be satisfactory in an RPG?

I'm interested in two aspects of this question:

1) In an RPG what needs to be true for you to feel as if your experience was worthwhile and valid if you don't ultimately save the world? That is, what specific gameplay do you need?

2) How would you feel if saving the world were possible but optional, and while you did something noteworthy and satisfying locally you later heard that some random NPC hero solved the world quest (killed the princess/saved the dragon/whatever)?

Would it have been enough for you to, say, rebuild a dying town and that's it... or turned a young noble from a path of vengeance and that's it...??? Do you matter only because you're essential or exceptional?

My most satisfying RPG experience remains System Shock 2. Assuming you're okay with SS2 being called an RPG, despite its action-game mechanics.

SS2's triumph was making me care immensely for the two other passengers who I was helping to escape the Von Braun. I cared more for them than myself, and certainly more than I've cared for any other RPG character or goal since.

To answer your questions:

1. The goal is secondary to the emotional investment. Make me care, and ANY goal is fine. It could be saving the world, it could be saving a single person.

2. I don't know, it would depend on the context. If it offered the promise of more story to come, I would happily buy it. If not, then why do I care what an NPC is doing off screen?

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Original post by faultymoose1. The goal is secondary to the emotional investment. Make me care, and ANY goal is fine. It could be saving the world, it could be saving a single person.

That's my opinion too. While "saving the city/country/world/universe" is the usual way RPG stories set the stakes high, it can be anything. Planescape: Torment, one of my all time favourite RPGs, is essentially a story about the protagonist saving himself, and it works beautifully. Pokemon's goal is "to be a master". Harvest Moon is about raising a farm and a family. Those goals work for their games.

For 2., I also agree it depends on the context. My fear is that if there's the option to do something big like save the world and you decide not to do it, it would feel as if you've made a mistake. It would be like those games that give multiple endings; if you get a bittersweet ending on your playthrough and you know there's an triumphant "winner" ending, then no matter how appropriate and dramatic the bittersweet ending is there's always an element that the game is berating you with a "better luck next time" resolution.

I was thinking about something pretty similar earlier this week. What if the story is to try and fail? What if the story resolution is your failure to save to world? How do you make that into a satisfying story?

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Original post by JasRonq I was thinking about something pretty similar earlier this week. What if the story is to try and fail? What if the story resolution is your failure to save to world? How do you make that into a satisfying story?

Personally I would be disapointed, even if the main storyline is for you to fail. I wouldn't like to spend hours on a game and then loose because that was the intent of the designer all along. Why play a game where you can't win?

_But!_ Coupled with a strong "get-back"-element I feel it could be satisfying. Like when the hero is so full of himself, he acctually looses the tournament he has trained hard to win, but he comes back, trains even harder and finally prevails. Or when Cloud failes to save Aerith, but in the end he has his revenge.

I think there has to be a "get back in the saddle"-moment for an automatic failure to work storywise.

I love System Shock 2 too. Bioshock I found much less engaging, even though the goals were 'loftier'.

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I was thinking about something pretty similar earlier this week. What if the story is to try and fail? What if the story resolution is your failure to save to world? How do you make that into a satisfying story?

Final Fantasy 6 is like this. The main quest is to save the world from being destroyed by the evil empire etc but you fail and it is. Then it moves on to a year later with everything in ruins and almost everyone dead and you have a new mission to defeat the villain who did it. Its my favourite JRPG, and again very involving despite being the opposite to SS2 and having a huge ensemble cast and no real main character.

I think simple failure by itself makes people feel cheated though. Like the final episode of blakes 7 where the main characters are just ambushed and killed, the end.

To be honest after countless quests for vengeance and saving the world numerous times I’m really not bothered by that particular storyline anymore. In fact it seems some games seems to have very simple small stories that inventible lead to the player saving the world at the end because expected.

Give me the interesting engaging stories tied into the game play any time. Helping keep my home time alive while heroes are off saving the world would be fun. One of favourite things about fallout 2 was the epilogue where it talks about the affect your actions had on the people and places you encountered. That’s far more satisfying then knowing I saved the world.

I quite like the idea that the save the world quest is optional. In fact what if it’s almost like a joke achievement and that it can only be done in a perfect play through with no optional content? No time to help every random stranger or pickup everything that’s not nailed down when you’re off to save the world.

Then you need a joke dialogue option in response to every quest giver... "No can-do buddy-roo! I'm off to save the world!"

As an aside to the topic, I am now thinking about a satire RPG. There might be a NPC named "Fed" and his ex-girlfriend keeps asking you to deliver love notes to him after their break up...

If Final Fantasy XIII is going out saving the world I'd rather stay home.

I'm utterly and totally OK with being a small fish. In fact I crave for games like that. I loved Daggerfall, in part because I mostly played the game as a career game where you advanced in the ranks of your favorite guild and ignored the main quest. To me the game ended when I had bought the biggest house, the biggest ship and had the highest rank in a bunch of guilds. It's too bad the game didn't flesh out those parts even more.

Something I'd also like to see is the possibility to actively join in on the save-the-world-action but not be the guy in the prophecies*. Like defending the mountain pass while the heroes venture deep within to slay the beast. Or be the cavalry that saves them after the deed is done.

*) man I hate those prophecies. To me the just scream "I can't figure out a reason for this story!"