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Original post by TechnoGoth Well it’s been a while since I played any of them but I can give you a brief run down of the features of each.

Thanks so much for this. I realize it's not even close to actually getting the feel of playing these games but I find it very useful to know what's been tried before.

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A dungeon consists of a randomly generated map, points of interest, and obstacles which are typically monsters. The same engine could generate a city. It would be just a different rule and data set, to go from generating a cargo hold filled with boxes of loot guarded by an automated sentry gun, to a vip lounge with a bouncer on the door filled with important contacts and individuals. You’ll need a gun or some hacking skills to get into cargo hold on the derelict ship, but when you’re in entertainment district of a big city you’ll need use your social skills or cold hard cash to get past the bouncer.

I want to try to do this, but one huge barrier versus the typical rogue-like approach is that non-combat gameplay tends to pale in comparison to combat gameplay, especially when things are very abstract. You might feel a sense of dread being surrounded by monsters or excitement encountering that one creature with a special item, and there may be many strategies to evading the status effects of a particular dragon-- but this doesn't seem to apply to a social context. When you try to charm the bouncer and fail, for instance, what happens? Do you simply get expelled? What do you do then, switch to combat?

It's hard to structure socialization in the same mold as combat, although it's an interesting angle to experiment with.

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Original post by Hollower You should check these out: www.monkkonen.net/games/ Driftmoon is your "top down Morrowind", and Notrium is more thematically in line with your game.

Thanks, great find! Definitely helps me feel better about the limitations of the perspective!

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Original post by Wavinator Quote: Original post by Cpt Mothballs If you've never played a game called Allods (I think it's called Rage of Mages in America), you should really give it a try. It's one of my favourite games ever made and it plays in a top down style like you're suggesting. Thx for the reference but these guys are isometric rather than top down (you can see the sides of buildings and your character). Funny enough when searching for "top down" games isometric is often confused with this perspective. Appreciated though!

And what exactly is the difference between a top down game and an isometric game?

10-45 degrees in camera angle?

I think you're in danger of limiting your perspective by forcing yourself into the conventions of what is just, for all intents and purposes, a camera angle.

But I guess it's not up to me decide where you draw inspiration from, so whatever.

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Original post by Cpt Mothballs And what exactly is the difference between a top down game and an isometric game? 10-45 degrees in camera angle?

Hah, in my case it's more like zero degrees camera angle. What that means is that it's impossible to tell what many things are from above. In Rage of Mages when I come across a town, enemy, hill or mountain I have a far greater chance of determining immediately what it is. At zero degrees terrain is nearly impossible to clearly depict, enemies (heck, even characters) all start looking alike because you only basically see head, shoulders and feet and so I have to adopt a different standard for how to represent things. For example: A ladder has to be a symbol; enemies and weapons need to have distinctive cross sections; and real-time action is problematic at best.

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I think you're in danger of limiting your perspective by forcing yourself into the conventions of what is just, for all intents and purposes, a camera angle.

You might be right about this but it makes me think of the age old strategic problem of situational awareness. If you're staring at the screen going "what the hell is that" before you get killed, it's a problem. If you can figure out that you're on a hill and thus have a range advantage, that's a problem.

(btw, wasn't trying to be smartass, I'm just trying to figure out what's possible within the bounds of my mediocre art abilities)

Well if you ever actually play the game, the UI and the stat/skill advancement systems are the main things you should look at.

For a top down game, I think they'd perfect, you have character detail on the side at all times, a mini map and room for inventory, spell macros and unit commands.
So yeah.
The main reasons I recommended the game in the first place.