Quote: Original post by Roberts91
How was my question immature in any way?

You're assuming that you know better than the people you're paying to teach you things.

Quote: Original post by Telastyn
Honestly, I question the quality of your current education if you can't make a well formed forum post, or make the distinction between programming language and programming knowledge.

I have to agree on that.


Programming is nothing more or less than algorithms and data structures.

Languages are a very minor detail. Languages come and go.

You can use whatever language you want. Write in machine code, Pascal, Ada, FORTRAN, COBOL, C, C++, Java, C#, Python, Eiffel, or whatever else.

Every program in every language is composed of data structures and the algorithms that work on them. Polymorphism, encapsulation, and other principles will gain you nothing unless and until you understand data structures and algorithms. Then you will learn that those fancy principles are nothing more than applied data structures and algorithms.

The role of a computer science university program is to teach you algorithms and data structures, computer theory, and a few to apply it.

Knowing the core of computer science will enable you to pick up ANY language, and ANY tool.

Roberts91, you need to learn how to communicate with proper written English. You need to learn that other people can know better than you what is important. You need to learn that learning a "different freaking language" and other "crap" will cause you to grow in ways you didn't know about, and ways you would never have bothered with. You will be required to learn and do many things that you don't like before you die.

All of these are very important life skills. The sooner you learn, the better off you will be.

It was the aggresive tone to your OP that marked it immature in my mind. That and the insanity of the topic title compared to your actual query (statement?).

I learned C++ while going to college, but I didn't learn it at college. I learned in a wide variety of languages in my coursework, but most of my personal projects at home were in C++. I learned a lot from the people on these forums.

Not being taught C++ is not an impediment to becoming a great C++ programmer.

First langauge they taught at my university was Haskell, I would never of thought of learning a functional language but it was a real eye opener from C/C++/C#. I probably wont ever use Haskell again but I will certianlly use the concepts I was taught with it. Also to reiterate what everyone else has said, languages are not important, problem solving and the maths, algorithms and data structures used is what uni will teach you and it can be applied to any langauge and any domain you want to go move into.

Quote: Original post by rip-off
Not being taught C++ is not an impediment to becoming a great C++ programmer.

Following on from this I'd like to suggest that being taught C++ can be impediment to becoming a great C++ programmer. Or at least thats how it seems.

We were taught it as part of our first year, on a games orientated course. A significant number of people ended up stumbling over the awkwardness of the language, shooting themselves in the foot and generally not being able to understand fundamental concepts within the language. Pointers and memory management in general are probably the worst offenders for this.

I managed through it just fine and now I'd say I'm pretty competant with the whole thing... other students didn't and either dropped out or lagged behind the work for a long time. Some of these students were pretty intelligent and had strong understandings of maths and science, but C++ just didn't sit well in their heads. So the industry lost a few people who could've been great programmers because the initial hurdles were just too high. Even now I think the only reason I managed through wasn't because I actually understood anything at that point, but because I was willing to just accept anything I was told as fact, meaning I just walked past the hurdles rather than got over them, which really isn't how it should be. I have since gotten over all of those hurdles and I'm pretty sure the current C++ standard doesn't have any more curve balls it can throw me, C++0x might do though, I haven't tried yet =P.

So, honestly, I think teaching Java or C# with XNA for game programming is a perfectly sensible way of doing things. They're not as dangerous as C++ and I'd imagine more students are able to pick them up and hone their skills, before moving onto C++ to begin shooting various holes into their appendages. At least now when they shoot those holes they don't end up giving up on the whole industry because their first taste of it was a sour one. At worst they'll just switch back to the sweeter taste of their origional language for a bit longer.

Quote: Original post by frob

Quote: Original post by Telastyn
Honestly, I question the quality of your current education if you can't make a well formed forum post, or make the distinction between programming language and programming knowledge.

I have to agree on that.


Programming is nothing more or less than algorithms and data structures.

Languages are a very minor detail. Languages come and go.

You can use whatever language you want. Write in machine code, Pascal, Ada, FORTRAN, COBOL, C, C++, Java, C#, Python, Eiffel, or whatever else.

Every program in every language is composed of data structures and the algorithms that work on them. Polymorphism, encapsulation, and other principles will gain you nothing unless and until you understand data structures and algorithms. Then you will learn that those fancy principles are nothing more than applied data structures and algorithms.

The role of a computer science university program is to teach you algorithms and data structures, computer theory, and a few to apply it.

Knowing the core of computer science will enable you to pick up ANY language, and ANY tool.

Roberts91, you need to learn how to communicate with proper written English. You need to learn that other people can know better than you what is important. You need to learn that learning a "different freaking language" and other "crap" will cause you to grow in ways you didn't know about, and ways you would never have bothered with. You will be required to learn and do many things that you don't like before you die.

All of these are very important life skills. The sooner you learn, the better off you will be.

Thank you! I simply wanted your opinions on the subject not of my attitude or writing skills. Sorry that my writing skills are not up to par with the people here at these forums. If I came off like I knew what I was talking about then I apologize but I wouldn't have made this post if I did know what I was talking about I was simply concerned with the curriculum at my local college and wanted assurance that this is the right direction for me.

Quote: Original post by Roberts91Sorry that my writing skills are not up to par with the people here at these forums. If I came off like I knew what I was talking about then I apologize but I wouldn't have made this post if I did know what I was talking about I was simply concerned with the curriculum at my local college and wanted assurance that this is the right direction for me.

Learn much you did, young Jedi. Yet more to learn you have.