Quote: Original post by Hodgman

Quote: Original post by LockePick
The issue is that there is absolutely no reason to have had this game tied to King's Quest other than earning meritless publicity off of others' work

Quote: Original post by Talroth
Whenever I hear that someone is doing "Fan art", especially "Fan Fiction", the first thing it screams to me is "Not smart enough to pick their own character names."

Wow... You guys are really insulting of passion!!

They are not insulting to just passion, they're insulting all around.

If I went around posting "Whenever I hear someone programming python, the first thing it screams to me is not smart enough to use C++", or "Whenever I hear someone using std, the first thing I think is not smart enough to write their own link list" I would get an ear full.

Is a game better or worse because a bean counter paid off the right people? If you took a poor piece of fan fiction and had it legally licensed, or took an officially licensed short story and removed it's license, does either of those things improve / break the actual work? If HAL revoked it's license to Super Smash Brothers, does that change anything about the series besides what bean counters care about?

Even if what Activision did was legal, you guys should have as much sympathy for someone who spent 8 years of their lives to a fan game as anyone else who spent a significant part of their lives to have it ruined though no fault of their own. Seriously, why not just go into a topic about a house fire which destroyed everyone they own and post that you have no sympathy because houses catch on fire and they were not smart enough to live in a house that doesn't catch fire.

Quote: But there seems to be a very simple business case here to license it. The group has a ready-made game, branded appropriately, with a ready-made audience. Just add some negotiation and business savvy, and Activision gets 'free' money. There is a very small cost to them (it never is free) but the ROI could be fairly large.

Assuming a fan project made in their spare time with IP a company doesn't care about, but owns full control of, in a genre that is pretty much dead has ANY real bargaining power is intellectually dishonest. Especially when that company has stated it is only interested in titles that are sequel generating.

Quote: Original post by Binomine
Even if what Activision did was legal

Are you questioning the legality of this? Activision owns the IP. Thus it is their right to decide who can and can't use it. If you create a unique work you would have this same right. It doesn't come down to what's morally right.

Quote: Original post by Binomine
You guys should have as much sympathy for someone who spent 8 years of their lives to a fan game as anyone else who spent a significant part of their lives to have it ruined though no fault of their own.

I do have sympathy for the fact that they have worked 8 years on a game development project with passion. That's not what this is about.

I don't have sympathy for the fact that those 8 years are wasted because they chose to violate IP rights of somebody else. They should have gotten concent before they started working on the project.

No fault of their own? That's just not correct.

Quote: Original post by Binomine
Seriously, why not just go into a topic about a house fire which destroyed everyone they own and post that you have no sympathy because houses catch on fire and they were not smart enough to live in a house that doesn't catch fire.

Now you're just exaggerating, tremendously if I may say so.

Quote: Original post by Binomine
Even if what Activision did was legal, you guys should have as much sympathy for someone who spent 8 years of their lives to a fan game as anyone else who spent a significant part of their lives to have it ruined though no fault of their own. Seriously, why not just go into a topic about a house fire which destroyed everyone they own and post that you have no sympathy because houses catch on fire and they were not smart enough to live in a house that doesn't catch fire.

Not comparable.

Now, if the topic was about someone who moved into a house which wasn't theirs, got an agreement with the owners saying they could stay and the owner promised not to burn down the house but could change their mind any time they wanted, then spent 8 years filling a house with stuff only to come home one day to find it burnt to the ground by the new owners (who brought the property some time before).. then, yes, I'd have zero sympathy for them as they got themselves into a position with no protection.

Quote: Original post by Binomine

Quote: Original post by Hodgman

Quote: Original post by LockePick
The issue is that there is absolutely no reason to have had this game tied to King's Quest other than earning meritless publicity off of others' work

Quote: Original post by Talroth
Whenever I hear that someone is doing "Fan art", especially "Fan Fiction", the first thing it screams to me is "Not smart enough to pick their own character names."

Wow... You guys are really insulting of passion!!

They are not insulting to just passion, they're insulting all around.

If I went around posting "Whenever I hear someone programming python, the first thing it screams to me is not smart enough to use C++", or "Whenever I hear someone using std, the first thing I think is not smart enough to write their own link list" I would get an ear full.

Is a game better or worse because a bean counter paid off the right people? If you took a poor piece of fan fiction and had it legally licensed, or took an officially licensed short story and removed it's license, does either of those things improve / break the actual work? If HAL revoked it's license to Super Smash Brothers, does that change anything about the series besides what bean counters care about?

Even if what Activision did was legal, you guys should have as much sympathy for someone who spent 8 years of their lives to a fan game as anyone else who spent a significant part of their lives to have it ruined though no fault of their own. Seriously, why not just go into a topic about a house fire which destroyed everyone they own and post that you have no sympathy because houses catch on fire and they were not smart enough to live in a house that doesn't catch fire.

Creating a new world, especially fantasy, is Not really that hard. Yes, it takes time and effort to develop a detailed and interesting world, but a very basic world in which to frame a story? Doesn't take long to make one. I've been writing for years, and only now have finished shaping the world for a setting. It is insulting to me as a writer that someone has the disrespectful idea that they can come along, grab a writer's world and think they can just run off and do as they please with it. In private or among a circle of friends as a writing exercise I easily forgive, but as something they expect to share with world is an insult.

Make up your own god damned names and characters! It really isn't that hard. Start writing character sketches, what does the guy or girl look like. What is their personality? What do they like or dislike? How do they act? Need a name? Google "Baby Names"!

As for the house fire bit that is a major stretch. The only way you can really equate one to what I'm talking about is if you tell someone that soaking their house in gas and then playing with matches is a bad idea, and then they run off and do it anyway. That person who burned their own house down gets nothing from me.

C'mon, people. This has to be the most pointless argument I've seen all week. You're arguing from different points of view without bothering to check whether those points of view actually conflict or not.

Is Activision legally within its rights to revoke the license? Yes.

Is it a totally unwarranted dick move for them to do so? Yes.

Did the developers feel that they were cleared to proceed, based on Vivendi's agreement? Yes.

Should they have realized that they still had the Sword of Damocles hanging over their heads? Yes.

Really, if there's one thing we should all be able to get behind, given which message board we're posting on, it's that the destruction of the products of creative energy is always a bad thing, whether it's a semi-licensed KQ game, or a game based on wholly original IP, or even a crappy little Pokemon fangame made in DarkBasic. The bottom line is years of work, come to nothing. You can frame that as a cautionary tale for developers or as an indictment of publishers like Activision; the lesson is the same.

Shouldn't they have ammassed a nice little code base by now that they could use to make something new? Unless they coded everything never keeping flexibility in mind in which case they really shot themselves in the foot. Still, although all their work is gone they no doubt gained some valuable knowledge and experience. It's only a waste if they don't use it.

Quote: Original post by Sneftel
... the destruction of the products of creative energy is always a bad thing,...

I'm going to have to disagree with how you phrased that. I think a far better view is "the application of creative energy to something destined solely to be destroyed is a bad thing."

The project shouldn't have started as a fan game ripping off someone's IP without permission in the first place. At the very least they should simply reframe their work and create new IP it can be used in.

Quote: Original post by Binomine
Even if what Activision did was legal, you guys should have as much sympathy for someone who spent 8 years of their lives to a fan game as anyone else who spent a significant part of their lives to have it ruined though no fault of their own. Seriously, why not just go into a topic about a house fire which destroyed everyone they own and post that you have no sympathy because houses catch on fire and they were not smart enough to live in a house that doesn't catch fire.

It was entirely legal. These things called contracts are legally binding agreements between two parties. Either side had the power to nullify the contract. Yeah it was a dick move but how in any way is not 'legal'? They spent eight years stealing somebody elses idea and knew exactly what they were doing. How are you supposed to feel sorry about that? I don't feel sorry for somebody who was playing with fire and burned their house down for it. If it was some kind of Kings Quest inspired game that had nothing to do with the original and Activision closed that down then I see a very just cause to get upset. But this was just plan stupid on their part. They knew it could be taken away at any time when they got the contract and pressed on for five more years. Being stupid on purpose doesn't warrent any kind of sympathy.

Hopefully they can retool the game away from KQ and still get something put out.

Quote: Original post by jtagge75

They spent eight years stealing somebody elses idea

You're absolutely right. They are terrorists. Why do they hate freedom so much? Why do they want fundamentalists to win?

No, really - stealing?

Infringement perhaps. And ideas cannot be protected under any law, so they cannot be stolen. The only time an idea can be stolen is in a phrase, but it has no legal meaning.

Or more accurately, neither. Up until now, they had a licensing agreement which permitted them development. Now this license was revoked.

Suddenly, they don't sound like such morons anymore.

No stealing was going on, no infringement, just an authorized fan project, who got ground to bits as collateral damage of large corporate politics. It's highly likely that nobody in either of the companies knows about it. When mergers and such restructurings occur, they follow certain set of processes. It's most likely that while reviewing existing IP, lawyers didn't find a proper form for "fan project", so they simply defaulted to C&D, without even knowing what it was about.

Looks like some a-holes in Activision do not like fan projects. I know a few people like that in the industry. Brutal corporate robots.