WRT the dvd/blu-ray experience above

use vlc to watch the film (though I assume ~80% here will already be using this)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLC_media_player

but it allows u to skip over most ads or indeed start playing anywhere in the film

Quote: Original post by zedz
WRT the dvd/blu-ray experience above

use vlc to watch the film (though I assume ~80% here will already be using this)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLC_media_player

but it allows u to skip over most ads or indeed start playing anywhere in the film

Yeah, but what percentage of the general populous doesn't use VLC? You can't exactly use VLC on a regular blu-ray player either. It's not the fact that there is a workaround available - it's the fact that something is screwed up enough in the first place that it's easier to circumvent copy protection to get a better user experience.

Quote: Original post by Hodgman

Quote: Original post by jtagge75

Quote: Original post by ChurchSkiz
If only we could hire these crackers to solve real-world technical problems.
These guys are reverse engineering a 6gb game in assembly...think of what they could do if they worked on a game engine.

Looking through disassembly to throw in a few nops is quite a bit different then actually creating a game. Especially since you have cracked one game using a particular DRM scheme any other games using that DRM become quite a bit easier.

Yeah I looked into how cracks worked back in school (some time in the Win98 era).
Just by following advice from forums about what different copy protection routines look like, I was able to disable a CD-check on a new game I'd gotten without even knowing X86 assembly (other than that j** instructions are probably branches, and nop can be used to "erase" instructions)!
Not saying it's easy, but once someone else has cracked a particular scheme, then even noobs can reproduce their cracking technique ;)

This ain't your momma's DRM. Lightwave for example spent 60% of it's program's resources on real-time copy protection (even had hardware dongle requirements). These guys are good.

Quote: Original post by ChurchSkiz

Quote: Original post by Hodgman

Quote: Original post by jtagge75

Quote: Original post by ChurchSkiz
If only we could hire these crackers to solve real-world technical problems.
These guys are reverse engineering a 6gb game in assembly...think of what they could do if they worked on a game engine.

Looking through disassembly to throw in a few nops is quite a bit different then actually creating a game. Especially since you have cracked one game using a particular DRM scheme any other games using that DRM become quite a bit easier.

Yeah I looked into how cracks worked back in school (some time in the Win98 era).
Just by following advice from forums about what different copy protection routines look like, I was able to disable a CD-check on a new game I'd gotten without even knowing X86 assembly (other than that j** instructions are probably branches, and nop can be used to "erase" instructions)!
Not saying it's easy, but once someone else has cracked a particular scheme, then even noobs can reproduce their cracking technique ;)

This ain't your momma's DRM. Lightwave for example spent 60% of it's program's resources on real-time copy protection (even had hardware dongle requirements). These guys are good.

Strangely enough, I think it's cases like this that piracy aides a product's market share. From what I understand, a large number of people that learn to use Photoshop have learnt using pirated copies. If the software had not been so accessible, it might not have become the defacto image editor of the industry. Perhaps that's why Max/Maya seem more popular than Lightwave.

Quote: Original post by Moe
Yeah, but what percentage of the general populous doesn't use VLC? You can't exactly use VLC on a regular blu-ray player either. It's not the fact that there is a workaround available - it's the fact that something is screwed up enough in the first place that it's easier to circumvent copy protection to get a better user experience.

fair enuf + I agree 100%, though my post is aimed at the readers here, just in case theyre using a 'widescreen' mediaplayer. i.e. One that doesnt allow this or doesnt play some stuff properly esp common if u watch old tv shows where deinterlacing is important.
Just a heads up

Quote: Original post by ChaosEngine

That said, the "waaahh, I'm not happy with DRM, so I'm going to pirate it"* argument is even more retarded than the "Hey! let's screw over the guys who actually paid for our game" argument.

No it isn't.

Quote: Original post by Antheus
[...]Same for retail-only products. It is simply not financially viable to pursue individual offenders ($59,95), which is the case with enterprise software ($599,500).[...]

My point was not "I don't understand why low-priced-product producers don't work like high-priced-product producers do." but rather "I wish they worked more like them.". Maybe not any more useful a sentiment, but not quite the same thing =-)

Personally, I don't like DRM ruining my fun. I've had it happen many times with many games. For example, I bought Warcraft 3 when it first came out, and the only way I could play it for ~6 months was to make an image and use cd emulation software because the DRM didn't like my DVD drive for an unknown reason. I'm prevented from running some betas and demos that recently came out because they wont run without administrator rights and they detect when they're running in an emulator and close (no, not a crash of any kind, they just refuse to run). I've had games in the past try to force me to uninstall process explorer because they didn't have a signature for it's driver. It's bad enough when they detect developer tools like a kernel debugger, but process explorer is a general use tool that power users around the world run as a task-manager replacement.

I refuse to run software that won't behave itself. I'd rather miss out than have malware running my computer and monitoring my every move. It's bad enough having to sign away your arm, leg, soul, firstborn, grandchild, and mind to be able to install things (it is probably a good thing most people don't read EULAs - that could kill PC gaming "for real this time"), but they want to take my computer too?!

The two consoles I own are the Wii and the DS. I play few PC games these days for the above-stated reasons, and the other consoles simply aren't worth the cost considering how few games they have that meet my tastes.

When publishers realize that they can probably save money (in support, development, and licensing) with simple DRM that only prevents casual piracy (cd checks, maybe one online check when you install, etc), then I might start gaming again.

Quote: Original post by zedz
WRT the dvd/blu-ray experience above

use vlc to watch the film (though I assume ~80% here will already be using this)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLC_media_player

but it allows u to skip over most ads or indeed start playing anywhere in the film

It's more of a DVD problem, I think; none of my Blu-ray discs have any ads (anti-piracy, film trailers or otherwise) on them before the film. Sadly, it's only a matter of time before that changes. [sad]

Then again, not all DVDs are bad – the excellent Masters of Cinema series just display this message after the film, which is doing it right in my book.

Quote: Original post by zedz
WRT the dvd/blu-ray experience above

use vlc to watch the film (though I assume ~80% here will already be using this)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLC_media_player

but it allows u to skip over most ads or indeed start playing anywhere in the film

I would not be at all surprised to hear a US court rule that infringement warnings are a means of copy protection and thus vlc is violating the DMCA by allowing the user to circumvent the copy protection mechanism. I think the worst thing about DRM is that we have no viable means of fighting it. I can abstain from buying games with excessive DRM as much as I want, but the masses will buy it then complain "it doesn't work" and yet will still be unable to return it to a store since we have virtually no consumer protection in the US

I have an older LG DVD player. Back when I bought it, in addition to the usual user manual stuff, there was a separate leaflet in the box. It said something along the lines of "special instructions for players sold on the French market". Followed by a short explanation on what buttons to press on the remote in order to enter maintenance mode, and how to use that mode to make the player region free, and how to make it ignore all DVD restrictions flags. The box was sealed, so I assume that the leaflet must have been from LG.

Now, most players have these undocumented features. But having the manufacturer explicitly tell you about them was a cool service. I still use that player, obviously.