I hate my current job, supervisor harasses me daily, the work generally sucks and it's from 10pm - 3am. I want to do what I enjoy and actually am good at but I only have a GED and it will be years before I can quit the job because it's one of those jobs that have decent benefits and pay considering that it requires no education, in fact I got the job before I got my GED. If I could find a job programming thats 9am - 5pm and pays minimum wage I would be completely happy.

yes

Quote: Original post by Hodgman
yes

Did you get a job with only a high school diploma or GED?

If you have to ask, you probably don't have the business skills to pull it off.

Network, build a portfolio, work hard, be professional.

It's more than doable but you're not going to be able to send out hundreds of resumes and expect to get lucky. You'll have to know people and have demonstrable talent.

This is easy, and I know people who have done it. Well, it's easy in the sense that the steps are clearly laid out. It's hard in that you're going to have to work long, hard hours to make it happen.

1. Admit that you don't have the necessary credentials and experience to walk into a programming position. Most college graduates with computer science degrees don't have the necessary experience to walk into a programming position. Most people with 5 to 10 years of experience that I have interviewed I would not put in to a programming position. Therefore, you're not as behind the curve as you might actually think.


2. Become tangentially associated with your goal. You can't get directly to programming, but you can get within the same building. Find a local, small consulting firm that does both Level 1 Tech Support and Application Development. Tech Support and QA Testing are the Waiter and Janitor equivalent in the IT world. I know, it doesn't sound like fun, but nobody said it would be. Luckily for you, these are very high turnover positions, so if there aren't any openings today, there are likely to be in a month or two.


3. Nail the interview. Very definitely talk about your long term goal to work in programming. The interviewer will understand that Support and Testing are high-turnover positions and will appreciate someone looking to grow with the company instead of getting a few bucks and bolting at the first sign of boredom.


4. Work your ass off. Learn everything you can about the products you're supporting. Volunteer for overtime. Study programming in your free time. Work on some open source projects. Start a few open source projects. Your social life will suffer, but anyone wanting a decent career who is going through college will be doing the same.


5. Move up the ladder when appropriate. You don't want to show up on your first day and start talking about moving on. Do a good job where you are at right now. The company has invested a significant amount of money to get you into that position and train you for it, give them back some value in return. If you're in Tech Support, only approach your supervisor about transition into Testing after a year. You'll have a yearly review, that is the perfect time to talk about your career goals. Again, cover your long-term goal of becoming a programmer in X number of years (where X is some number greater than 4). Your supervisor, if he or she isn't a complete dolt, will be interested in helping you achieve those goals, because it's cheaper to promote someone than to hire someone new. If you ever do get to be a programmer there, you'll have intimate knowledge of the companies product line from your experience with Support and Testing. Definitely point that out to your supervisor during your review.


6. Finally, don't be an idiot. I know that sounds like a no-brainer, but you might be surprised with how many people screw this one up. Always follow company policy. Don't take shortcuts. Don't get into arguments with people. Be polite. Save your money. Etc. etc.

That's pretty much all I have to say. It may seem like a long road, but realize that you're below a High School Graduate on the totem pole, and a High School Graduate isn't going to have an easy time either. They'd be spending the next 4 to 5 years at University, and if they're only average, probably end up in QA Testing to start anyway. If you can take a Support job and flip it into a Programming job in 5 or 6 years, you're actually ahead of the curve, because you won't have any debt and you'll have 5 years of work experience under your belt. Just remember, the future always gets here, and quicker than you expect.

Computers are pretty much the last field where a diploma is not necessary, although it is quite helpful. Diploma, certifications, etc are just that. They are pieces of paper that say that the holder meet some sort of requirement to get it. If you can convince someone that you are just as good as someone with that paper, then you can get a job. You can do this through strong networking and building a portfolio to show people you can do this stuff.

It is a seriously tough way of going, because you lack a piece of paper for the boss to scapegoat if you are not all that good, but it is possible.

From what I understand you won't likely find one in the game industry without said requirements (portfolio, preferably CS degree of some kind, etc).

Your best chance is to look on Craigs List or in the local newspaper for those jobs that are in niche areas. I've had 2 of them, and I have no college education PLUS a felony record. Now there was definitely a bit of the Lord's blessing involved in this, so I can't claim credit for doing something of my own merit, but the point is it's certainly possible.

As an example, the 2 jobs I had were for a psychologist working on some 10 year old and running software that is used for treating children with certain disorders, and working on R&D stuff with EEG and what not. That ended abrubtly partially because he has his own problems and most because I had my own problems and tended to have a nasty outlook on life and attitude in general (moreso than I do now). He sells his software a few thousand dollars a license.

The 2nd job I had and still have is in the field of microbiology, working with a certain software that interacts with those 10s and 100s thousands dollar microscopes and analyzes data, takes measurements, etc. This software also sells for thousands of dollars a license but really it is small potatoes compared to the systems people are buying for it anyway.

It's not that it's that difficult to do, it's more about convincing them that you are what/who they want, and stumbling/being guided to the right place. Last note is that unlike the game programming business (or so I hear), demand is high and at least the 2 places I've been they have consistently had a VERY hard time finding ANYONE - which is definitely a large part of why I would have gotten hired.

On the other hand there are times I wish I had a CS degree (though at this point with a family and currently stable job it's not viable), simply because there are things I've noticed you'll learn that will be very beneficial down the line. Not that you can't learn them on your own, but sometimes you just don't know WHAT to learn.

Good luck and God bless!

[Edited by - popsoftheyear on March 3, 2010 11:25:39 AM]

Quote: Original post by popsoftheyear
From what I understand you won't likely find one in the game industry without said requirements (portfolio, preferably CS degree of some kind, etc).

Your best chance is to look on Craigs List or in the local newspaper for those jobs that are in niche areas. I've had 2 of them, and I have no college education PLUS a felony record. Now there was definitely a bit of the Lord's blessing involved in this, so I can't claim credit for doing something of my own merit, but the point is it's certainly possible.

As an example, the 2 jobs I had were for a psychologist working on some 10 year old and running software that is used for treating children with certain disorders, and working on R&D stuff with EEG and what not. That ended abrubtly partially because he has his own problems and most because I had my own problems and tended to have a nasty outlook on life and attitude in general (moreso than I do now). He sells his software a few thousand dollars a license.

The 2nd job I had and still have is in the field of microbiology, working with a certain software that interacts with those 10s and 100s thousands dollar microscopes and analyzes data, takes measurements, etc. This software also sells for thousands of dollars a license but really it is small potatoes compared to the systems people are buying for it anyway.

It's not that it's that difficult to do, it's more about convincing them that you are what/who they want, and stumbling/being guided to the right place. Last note is that unlike the game programming business (or so I hear), demand is high and at least the 2 places I've been they have consistently had a VERY hard time finding ANYONE - which is definitely a large part of why I would have gotten hired.

On the other hand there are times I wish I had a CS degree (though at this point with a family and currently stable job it's not viable), simply because there are things I've noticed you'll learn that will be very beneficial down the line. Not that you can't learn them on your own, but sometimes when on your own you don't know WHAT to go and teach yourself.

Good luck and God bless!

Online contracting jobs are something else you can talk your way in to. Granted I have professional experience but I've gotten a couple decent short term contracts just showing my online portfolio and talking to the owners.

What kind of programming experience do you have? If you have none then you have no chance. What kind of portfolio work do you have? You are going to have to have something extra special here. There is no reason you can't get a job but you are going to have to work double hard then somebody who already has a degree.

Yes, it is possible. I barely graduated from highschool in 2001 (after skipping 1/3rd of my senior year) and today I'm the Director of IT at a company. I started working with computers in a round-about way. I got a job at a PC Game LAN center. While I was there running the register, I convinced the owner that I knew what I was doing, and soon I replaced the contract IT guy for maintaining the machines and servers. Shortly after that I was working on their website as well. Unfortunately the hours nearly killed my relationship with my girlfriend of the time (who is now my wife) since I was working 80 hours per week since I was the only employee. To be fair, half the time was playing games with the customers :D

That experience with computers and "servers" led to my first programming job at a local dialup company that also did some hosting and contract development work. The pay was crap and the job was menial, but that was all I needed to get "programming experience" on my resume.

I would also recommend changing jobs semi-frequently until you find a place you actually like working at, or you're at a place where they pay you enough to like it. It helps broaden your experience and it will lead to a much faster increase in pay. The job at the ISP for instance, I started at $24,000 per year, and I was working approximately 50 hours a week. My billable time brought in around $150,000 for the company. When the time for my review came up, they were going to bump me up to $30,000 / year and thought I would be happy with that. Instead I accepted a job at another company for $40,000 / year. Rinse and repeat.

There are some potential downsides to this approach, of all the companies I interviewed at, only one called attention to me only staying at a job for a year, but they still offered me the position (I declined since it didn't pay enough)

The hardest part is getting the interview. As my resume filled up with more and more experience, that become less of an issue. If you're confident in your abilities and you communicate well, then the interview itself shouldn't be much of a problem.

Quote: Original post by tstrimp
Yes, it is possible. I barely graduated from highschool in 2001 (after skipping 1/3rd of my senior year) and today I'm the Director of IT at a company. I started working with computers in a round-about way.

That was two Internet economy crashes and one recession ago. Right now, we're effectively in depression.

Up until 2001 anyone with a heartbeat could get just about any title on chance. Meanwhile, tens of millions of CS MScs and PhDs entered the workforce, majority of them working at 20% of western wages, and without exception willing to work 80 hour weeks with no benefits and no extra compensation.

In addition, programming positions changed. Expectations today are much different, assume familiarity with all the development practices as well as other demands.

Today the equivalent of such self-start position would be what appears to be called devops. A developer that is capable of programming, design, UX, QA and operations - all on their own, and fully up to expected standards with regard to metrics and methodology.

For someone who knows their stuff, and can approach it as a business, there are still options.

As always, it depends, but chances today are probably a million times slimmer, especially since minimum wage for programmers (people who write code based on other's requirements) is around $200 a month.

The economy right now is so bad, that even Indian developers (arguably lowest wage bracket) are closing shops en masse, since there simply isn't any work, with exception of large consultancies.