I am not sure if this would be the right place to place this thread or not so if it isn't please move it to the right place. We are building a Server for a MMO. Our network is using ICE which is GPL. Our server is based on Plugins each plugin implementing different game logic. If we were to release our basic Server opensource because using ICE it would have to be. However would our plugins need to be released as well or could we keep them closed source if they don't contain any parts of ICE? Also where the server would not be released to ANY ONE would it even need to be released Opensource or under that license is it just that if you were to release it it would need to be released as opensource?

Quote: Original post by EmpireProductions
We are building a Server for a MMO. Our network is using ICE which is GPL. Our server is based on Plugins each plugin implementing different game logic. If we were to release our basic Server opensource because using ICE it would have to be. However would our plugins need to be released as well or could we keep them closed source if they don't contain any parts of ICE?

You would probably have to release them... this is one of the vaguer parts of the GPL, but it's unlikely that this falls under the "mere aggregation" exemption.

Quote: Also where the server would not be released to ANY ONE would it even need to be released Opensource or under that license is it just that if you were to release it it would need to be released as opensource?

It depends on whether any of the GPL components were released with the Affero clause.

It sounds like you're not on the GPL wagon. That's fine. I'm not either. The solution is to not use GPLed software, because the authors have decided that if you're not on the GPL wagon you don't get to use their software. Legalistic contortions to try to circumvent these restrictions will be ineffective and dangerous.

First off, IANAL [smile]. As far as I know:

Quote: Original post by EmpireProductions
We are building a Server for a MMO. Our network is using ICE which is GPL. Our server is based on Plugins each plugin implementing different game logic. If we were to release our basic Server opensource because using ICE it would have to be. However would our plugins need to be released as well or could we keep them closed source if they don't contain any parts of ICE?

If the plugins are linked in any way to the GPL'd code, then yes, you have to release them under the GPL. This includes dynamically loaded plugins, if the host process is GPL.

Quote: Also where the server would not be released to ANY ONE would it even need to be released Opensource or under that license is it just that if you were to release it it would need to be released as opensource?

If you release a client that communicates with the server, that counts as releasing the server, and thus the server would have to be released under the terms of the GPL.

Note that some variants of the GPL (particularly the Affero license) require the client be released as open source as well in this situation.

Quote: Original post by Sneftel

Quote: Original post by EmpireProductions
We are building a Server for a MMO. Our network is using ICE which is GPL. Our server is based on Plugins each plugin implementing different game logic. If we were to release our basic Server opensource because using ICE it would have to be. However would our plugins need to be released as well or could we keep them closed source if they don't contain any parts of ICE?

You would probably have to release them... this is one of the vaguer parts of the GPL, but it's unlikely that this falls under the "mere aggregation" exemption.

Quote: Also where the server would not be released to ANY ONE would it even need to be released Opensource or under that license is it just that if you were to release it it would need to be released as opensource?

It depends on whether any of the GPL components were released with the Affero clause.

It sounds like you're not on the GPL wagon. That's fine. I'm not either. The solution is to not use GPLed software, because the authors have decided that if you're not on the GPL wagon you don't get to use their software. Legalistic contortions to try to circumvent these restrictions will be ineffective and dangerous.

I don't mind GPL software heck I use alot of it considering I don't have the money to buy commercial licenses. I just don't want a whole bunch of copies of my game being made or if my game does get popular I don't want some one to connect to my servers with a hacked client and start cheating. Cheating ruins MMOs and makes them not fun for every one involved except the cheater. But ICE does have a Commercial License so we will just have to look into it before release.

Quote: Original post by Sneftel
It sounds like you're not on the GPL wagon. That's fine. I'm not either. The solution is to not use GPLed software, because the authors have decided that if you're not on the GPL wagon you don't get to use their software. Legalistic contortions to try to circumvent these restrictions will be ineffective and dangerous.

Though I want to add the note that you can of course use GPL software as much as you want, but you might be careful (in the sense that you should know what the GPL is about) when using and/or modifying GPL sources.

IANAL, I am not sure about the details for example when using GCC, if you are then forbidden per se to make proprietary software with it (knowing this is irrelevant for me). But when using gimp and other "creative" software like that, you can use your productions for whatever you want.

(sidenote: my pet project is a free terrain syntheizer and renderer [no major release, yet], which is licensed under the gpl, but still, users will be allowed to publish and sell their images, and use generated imagery in their proprietary application; it's just picogen itself which is protected, not the user's work)

Quote: Original post by EmpireProductions
I don't mind GPL software heck I use alot of it considering I don't have the money to buy commercial licenses. I just don't want a whole bunch of copies of my game being made or if my game does get popular I don't want some one to connect to my servers with a hacked client and start cheating. Cheating ruins MMOs and makes them not fun for every one involved except the cheater. But ICE does have a Commercial License so we will just have to look into it before release.

By "use", I mean "use in your own software".

Ok, I'm the buy programming the plugin framework...

I currently have it set up like this:
I confined all the ICE stuff to a single plugin.that plugin then uses two libraries, ICE and the PluginFramework. Would it be possible then to have the IcePlugin open sources and the PluginFramework closed, or at least LGPL?

Quote: Original post by ractoc
I currently have it set up like this:
I confined all the ICE stuff to a single plugin.that plugin then uses two libraries, ICE and the PluginFramework. Would it be possible then to have the IcePlugin open sources and the PluginFramework closed, or at least LGPL?

It sounds like you're not on the GPL wagon. That's fine. I'm not either. The solution is to not use GPLed software, because the authors have decided that if you're not on the GPL wagon you don't get to use their software. Legalistic contortions to try to circumvent these restrictions will be ineffective and dangerous.

Ok, so you mean to tell me that, once I use one part of my app that's GPL, I can't use ANY paid components besides that? I find that hard to believe.

With that in mind, I wouldn't be able for example to connect to an Oracle database, seeing how their driver is closed source....

Quote: Original post by ractoc
With that in mind, I wouldn't be able for example to connect to an Oracle database, seeing how their driver is closed source....

No. IANAL, but it's only derivative works that need to be also open-sourced. So if you link to GPL software you are a derivative work. Other libraries to which you also link are not considered derivative work because they themselves do not link to the GPL software.

So I suppose one way of doing it would be to create your own internal library which contains all your "secret" stuff, and link to both that and the GPL software and then release the source code to your client, but not the code to your private library.

I believe there is also a point of contention with GPL software about whether or not dynamic linking is considered a derivative work.

These questions & issues, btw, are precisely why most professional companies disallow the use of any GPL code for any reason internally.

-me