First of all, does anyone know of an existing MMO where you control a team (of pets or something) in turn-based tactical PvE combat? Controlling a team does not have to be the only or main type of combat, it would be okay if just one character class used it. For example in Dofus the Osamodas class can summon several monsters into existence during the course of a single battle. The monsters are AI controlled though, so it's not really tactical. That's the problem with most tactical MMOs - you only control your character, which makes it way too simple. I want to control a small army. But I don't want the game to degenerate into a TBS, I still want the RPG story and character development. My own idea is more like a pet-capturing class (like hunter in WoW or Venomancer in PWI) but instead of the severe limits these games have on owning and using pets, I would like to see a game where it is an encouraged goal to obtain one of every type of monster, and use several in combat simultaneously. Disgaea almost does this - you get some named story characters to use as fighters, but you purchase additional minions, which can be either humans or monsters. I assume Final Fantasy Tactics is similar, although I haven't played it. But neither of those have the dynamic of monster capturing (much less breeding) which I find particularly fun, and they're not quest-based MMOs. Specifically I'm thinking, all newly captured monsters have the same stats, the only difference between them is appearance. Or if they come with an ability or elemental alignment, it's easy to erase this and replace it with something different if desired. Then you can teach each one additional abilities and use items to alter its stats. None of this is permanent - you can easily rebuild a monster to have totally different abilities and stats, so it's fun to experiment with different builds and teams, not something you have to be afraid of wasting money and time if you screw up. So, anyone have any thoughts or opinions about a game like this?

Atlantica Online is a tactical turn based MMO. It's more like a normal turn based RPG though since your units are on one side and their units are on the other side, but you still have to watch your units' positions. You can assemble your team with up to 8 mercenaries from various classes. There's a lot of possible builds and strategies.

While I can't think of any turn-based MMO examples, i have two that might interest you and give you something to look into.

1.) Guild Wars

(http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hero) - In the Nightfall expansion, ANet introduced a feature that allowed players to unlock special characters called "Heroes". The Heroes are AI controlled party members, that the player can customize with their own skills, weapons, and armor. The heroes will use their skills on their own accord, but players can also click on a skill and force them to use it.

2.)Sword of the New World

(http://www.gamersfirst.com/swordofthenewworld/?q=Features) - This game introduces a Multi-Character Control System (MCC) where a player can control 3 characters simultaneously.

Sword of the new world was what I was going to mention too. I don't know if that was what you were looking for though.

But from the look of your post, it seems like a a sort of pokemon.

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Original post by pothb Sword of the new world was what I was going to mention too. I don't know if that was what you were looking for though. But from the look of your post, it seems like a a sort of pokemon.

Pokemon doesn't have tactical combat, the player can only use a single pokemon at a time and there isn't a chessboard or hex grid battlefield. Monsters also would not evolve in my concept because changing the monster's appearance is as likely to make players unhappy as happy. But it is like Pokemon in the "gotta catch 'em all" aspect, and pokemon does have breeding, though mine would work differently. No pokemon MMO will be appearing though, they've made a press statement that they don't want to make an MMO.


Thanks for the recommendations guys, I'll check them out. [smile] I looked at Atlantica already - it's a pity it only has human fighters and doesn't have movement on a game board, it otherwise looks quite interesting. I was stymied by the installation page though - it says if you have Vista, don't install the game on the C drive. But I have Vista and I _only_ have a C drive. ???

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Original post by sunandshadow Pokemon doesn't have tactical combat, the player can only use a single pokemon at a time and there isn't a chessboard or hex grid battlefield. Monsters also would not evolve in my concept because changing the monster's appearance is as likely to make players unhappy as happy. But it is like Pokemon in the "gotta catch 'em all" aspect, and pokemon does have breeding, though mine would work differently. No pokemon MMO will be appearing though, they've made a press statement that they don't want to make an MMO.

But they really should make one... man, would people jump on that. Anyway, I was thinking pokemon more like the anime itself, rather than the games. Like how Ash usually use 2 pokemons to fight off a group of random pokemons.

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Original post by pothb Quote: Original post by sunandshadow Pokemon doesn't have tactical combat, the player can only use a single pokemon at a time and there isn't a chessboard or hex grid battlefield. Monsters also would not evolve in my concept because changing the monster's appearance is as likely to make players unhappy as happy. But it is like Pokemon in the "gotta catch 'em all" aspect, and pokemon does have breeding, though mine would work differently. No pokemon MMO will be appearing though, they've made a press statement that they don't want to make an MMO. But they really should make one... man, would people jump on that. Anyway, I was thinking pokemon more like the anime itself, rather than the games. Like how Ash usually use 2 pokemons to fight off a group of random pokemons.

Yeah the anime's much better than the games IMO. The anime shows pokemon being used for a lot of non-combat applications that might make interesting puzzles in a game. The pokemon in the anime talk too, even if they mostly aren't understood by humans (besides Meowth who is awesome).

A good party based mmorpg should have 6 characters + 2 NPCs. There should also be a lobby or tavern where many other characters you created can be swapped out. I haven't seen one yet though.

For a single-player game, I'd prefer turn-based or a system that allows pausing like Baldur's Gate. For a multiplayer or online game, I'd prefer real-time. Of course, this leads to AI-controlled minions and possibly less control over them. So what kind of system would provide full control over the minions without giving too much advantage to twitch gamers who can micromanage as in an RTS? Maybe a hierarchy of options, from high level behavior ("Aggressive") to general actions ("Attack X") to specific abilities to activate ("Activate Skill X").

I've approached these questions in a prototype I'm building for a game where each player controls a set of creatures. To attack the real-time tactical team problem, I've focused on simple mechanics (N abilities per creature) and an interface that gives the player quick access to any creature's abilities. To combat twitch gaming, I've explored queueing up abilities or slowing down the execution of abilities to give more weight to planning. I'm still working on a clean way to introduce higher level behaviors.

Creature customization and advancement interests me. I've considered allowing the player to draw from a pool of abilities to customize a creature. The pool would build up over time as the player advances. Each creature has an appearance determined by the selection (and strength?) of abilities (using simple procedurally-generated graphics). I see individual creature advancement as using an overall level or specific ability levels, but this may be too complex.

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Original post by slack For a single-player game, I'd prefer turn-based or a system that allows pausing like Baldur's Gate. For a multiplayer or online game, I'd prefer real-time. Of course, this leads to AI-controlled minions and possibly less control over them. So what kind of system would provide full control over the minions without giving too much advantage to twitch gamers who can micromanage as in an RTS? Maybe a hierarchy of options, from high level behavior ("Aggressive") to general actions ("Attack X") to specific abilities to activate ("Activate Skill X"). I've approached these questions in a prototype I'm building for a game where each player controls a set of creatures. To attack the real-time tactical team problem, I've focused on simple mechanics (N abilities per creature) and an interface that gives the player quick access to any creature's abilities. To combat twitch gaming, I've explored queueing up abilities or slowing down the execution of abilities to give more weight to planning. I'm still working on a clean way to introduce higher level behaviors. Creature customization and advancement interests me. I've considered allowing the player to draw from a pool of abilities to customize a creature. The pool would build up over time as the player advances. Each creature has an appearance determined by the selection (and strength?) of abilities (using simple procedurally-generated graphics). I see individual creature advancement as using an overall level or specific ability levels, but this may be too complex.

I was specifically intending this thread to be about turn-based tactical combat, such as in the game Disgaea. But interesting thoughts about real-time team combat. For a real-time game I'd personally go with the one player, one pet system such as WoW's Hunters and Warlocks, Perfect World's Venomancers, etc. Controlling a team in real time just results in depersonalizing the creatures to wield them as a troop or automating them.