I wanted the opinions of people here toward the model that I have seen some games use, specificly the gameboy Advance game 'Mario Power Tennis' In this game the player could attempt various minigames in order to boost various statistics. Personally I consider this an interesting and dynamic solution but could it be harnessed within traditional RPG's? The main concern that I have seen others express with most RPG/MMORPG is the need for constant grinding that requires very little in the way of skill or input to achieve, what if the player could play specific minigames (I.e: a balance minigame avoiding rolling barrels to acquire more Dexterity/Agility) to raise stats. Do you think this model could work in a conventional RPG formula and how hard would it be to execute in terms of programming/visuals? Cheers for your input, Aaron.

I could thing of realistic elements such as benching mini games to maintain and increase strength, but this has been used in GTA in the past, and the result was that it was a "hassle" that didn't bring much fun factor.
Although the idea would theorically be fun, the application might prove to be quite a challenge.
Replacing the "boring" fight-related stat-boosting process with a equally boring or worse mini-game would not only make things "not better" but quite worse.
The advantage to increase levels through combat is that it uses an element that is already present in the game as an obstacle (combats) and bring reward.
By removing rewards from fights, you make fights even less interesting, and you attempt to introduce an element that is optional rewards. Optional reward is like extra content, it is good, but not everyone wants to mess with it, so this is a very dangerous concept.

Now if you had a fun example of mini-game you would like to implement, we could judge from its application.

As far as I know, however, implementation of mini-games is quite easy programming-wise.

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Original post by Orymus I could thing of realistic elements such as benching mini games to maintain and increase strength, but this has been used in GTA in the past, and the result was that it was a "hassle" that didn't bring much fun factor. Although the idea would theorically be fun, the application might prove to be quite a challenge. Replacing the "boring" fight-related stat-boosting process with a equally boring or worse mini-game would not only make things "not better" but quite worse. The advantage to increase levels through combat is that it uses an element that is already present in the game as an obstacle (combats) and bring reward. By removing rewards from fights, you make fights even less interesting, and you attempt to introduce an element that is optional rewards. Optional reward is like extra content, it is good, but not everyone wants to mess with it, so this is a very dangerous concept. Now if you had a fun example of mini-game you would like to implement, we could judge from its application. As far as I know, however, implementation of mini-games is quite easy programming-wise.

I agree with your points entirely.

I think what I am trying to suggest is a game such as DanceDance revolution (or flashflash revolution) where keys must be pressed at a specific time in relation to their position to acquire points or perhaps games such as whack a mole or possibly even memory games such as card pairing. Games that require good motor sensory/memory/skill to accomplish or acquire a good score within that could grow with the players level of skill and thus reward with more increases in status.

Arguably, Mario uses mini-games in order to award you lives and items (the latest Mario on Wii). I personally find them somewhat boring though, but despite that fact, they do give a pause on the regular gameplay, and what may seem like a boring mini-game can be a way to change the player's mind before he dives deeper afterwards.

I really like the idea of minigames withing MMOs or RPGs, but I think characters' stats is the worst thing it could effect. Minigames are most suitable to crafting/gathering/farming/breeding activities within an MMO, or if they are multiplayer minigames like racing or poker they could be rewarded with tokens which could be exchanged for prize items, or they could be rewarded with money or reputation.

Take a look at NeoPets for an example of a collection of minigames being the main 'work' players do to earn money within the game.

An old commodore 64 game called Legend of Black silver had all character stats set through mini games. There were temples in the world and each one had different stat you could train. The players scores in the mini game determined your stat. It was different and fun. It removed the need for pointless grinding to improve stats, and combat was just another of the several different obstacles in the game.

The Fight Night boxing games came immediately to mind when I read the topic -- you can lift weights, hit the punching bag, or the combo dummy to raise certain stats in between each of your matches. Alternatively you can sim through them for something like 40% of the max benefit.

The other thing I thought of, and this is more pertinent to RPGs, was the old Quest for Glory series (Fantasy Action-Adventure with RPG-style stats). There were a number of mini-games, some of which were played for cash or prizes that had the side benefit of giving you an opportunity to increase your stats as you played them. In the QG1 there was a knife-throwing game in the Thieves' Guild; a magic game against a wizard where you used spells to help get your "piece" across the finish line first (I believe that winning this game the first time yielded that wizard's own special 'blind' spell as your reward); QG1-QG2 have melee combat lessons against a trainer; QG3 had several minigames, including a Mancala-style board game which I think could raise your intelligence small amounts and also would cause your opponent to warm up to you as you improved at the game and tell you more of his own story. Other minigames improved your physical stats and prepared you for a competition to be accepted as a warrior by the tribe.

I think it can be done well. Kengo II, an old PS2 samurai fighting game, had a character development system that I found noteworthy in many respects, and it used minigames for stat-boosting between tournament fights. The strength challenge was a rhythm game, the endurance was a button-masher, the will was a balancing game, etc.

A neat wrinkle they used to keep it engaging was that your character got better at the minigames as your stats improved, so it wasn't just blind repetition allowing you to grind up stats. At first, the minigame where you stand under a waterfall and meditate is impossible, and no matter how precise you are with the controller, your guy will eventually pass out from the strain and receive a partial bonus. As he levels up, he lasts longer and longer, getting more and more benefit from the exercise, until you can get through the entire duration, and then it becomes a contest to see how much stamina you have left at the end. If you max out that stat, then your guy is like a mountain, able to sit in the torrent and read his mail without effort. It's very gratifying. The agility game has you slashing your way through a bamboo grove obstacle course, and you're over 50% of the max possible dexterity before you can even hope to finish the course. After that, it's a time trial, and after a while you can devastate the grove casually. Again, a clear sense of achievement there.

It works great, and running through the minigames between challenges has the feel of a Rocky montage, with clear improvement that you then see in the ring. That's a tournament fighter-type game, but I think the principles could translate very well to a more traditional RPG format.

I really liked the lock-picking minigame in the elder scrolls games. I like mini games within RPGs because they increase the playability of the game's world in general.

What about playing a mini-game to improve the player's skills rather than the character's stats?