Hi all, I am currently a senior finishing my Bachelors of Computer Science. I like to program games in my spare time because I enjoy the challenges and problems you get to solve. I'd really like to get my games out to the public and just see what people think. I am currently still a student and not making much money, so my goal here is to get my games up on a website, and make at least some money just to cover the hosting fees. My goal isn't to make money or make a career out of this necessarily (but I'm open to the idea if everything takes off or something). My main concern here is protecting my games and ideas. I've done a little bit of research and I think what I want to do is start my own company and get my games on a website and use something like Google Adsense to make some money to cover hosting. I believe for the company, I would want to start a sole proprietorship based on what I've read. It sounds like this requires me to fill out some paper work for doing business as (insert company name). Are there any large fees to this or is there anything tricky about this I should know? Does this seem like the right direction for me? I am not looking to create a major development company. As for protecting my games and ideas, it seems like since my works are finished, I just need to copyright them. Is that it? The game I want to start with is a Tower Defense style game with some new twists that I haven't seen in other tower defense games. So the general idea of the game is not my own. The graphics, sounds, and code are all my own. There's no main character or anything. There may be updated versions of the game, but it the title will remain the same. After I get all of that done, it seems to be as simple as finding good hosting (if anyone knows of some, I'm open to suggestions), setting up the website, using Adsense or something to help cover hosting, and maybe advertising a little bit around the internet to make sure people play and click the ads occasionally. Does this all sound too easy/crazy? Am I dreaming here, or do I have a fairly good grasp of what I want to do? Any help/advice/criticism/guidance/wisdom is greatly, greatly appreciated.

Considering that this is your first game and it doesn't seem like you're going to try to make this your career I would do the following if I were you:

- make a game. Obviously, you need a game to market :) This will probably be harder than you think
- get a website to upload your game on. You can use any web host provider. Hell, just use freewebs if you're not that serious
- market the game. Go on to forums, tell your friends, do whatever you want to market the game.

Don't worry about starting up a legitimate company - you probably won't make much money.
Don't worry about people stealing your game ideas - nobody cares about your ideas.

Unless you make a shit ton of money, I really wouldn't worry too much about the legal side of things...

Just my 2 cents...

(Keep in mind, I ain't a lawyer, but I do think you're making a bigger deal out of a simple thing.)

Be very careful about what type of business entity you choose to create. For example, IIRC, Sole Proprietorships and Partnerships do not protect the personal assets of a proprietor/partner from being fair game should there ever be a lawsuit directed at your business venture -- EG: A fluke in your game causes an important file on a users machine to be overwritten, they sue the company, and since the company itself has limited assets, they come after your personal property.

Many independant game companies are formed as LLCs (Limited Liability Corportations) or properly incorporated entities for just this reason. Granted that proprietorships/partnerships are generally easier with regard to extracting money and taxation (although you are also subject to higher taxation as well, since it generally counts as personal income, rather than corporate, and you forego all the potential corporate write-offs).

For my own plans, once I get to that point, I plan to form an S-Corp, make myself the sole shareholder (or some split among partners), and pay limited salaries with the bulk of cash extraction happening through stock dividends.

Not sure about other countries, but it's probably the same thing for the same reasons. Sole Proprietorships are for self-employed builders etc who want to be legit and register with the tax man etc., but don't want the hassle of running a proper company. However, these offer no protection. A jobbing builder doesn't need any protection from copyright infringement lawsuits etc.

To get all the benefits of being a company, but to keep it small and real, you want to be a Limited Company (in the UK), an LLC (in the USA) or an equivalent elsewhere if there is one. There are some hassles with this, but they're pretty minor tbh. The paperwork for running a large company is more about the fact that it's a large company, not specifically a limited liability one.

If you really can't be arsed with a LTD or LLC, then just don't bother. Tell the tax man directly how much money you made at the end of the year and he'll leave you alone - probably won't even charge you anything as most countries offer some sort of tax free minimum earning amount to filter out the noise (a bit like an insurance excess)

ianal but am a ceo

I wish to add to this question because mine is alike. I am currently opening a Sole Proprietorship right now while my team and I continue developing our game. This way it's a registered company so we can market as we develop and future investors or even game article sites trust us as real developers. Also I can start trade marking our game name and copyrighting the work. Than when the time comes to start selling, we will have a lawyer convert the company into an LLC along with all the assets that were originally a part of the Sole Proprietorship.

Does this seem like a good idea? I don't mind paying any costs for having a Sole Proprietorship opened while we aren't making profits(maybe sell t-shirts or something 0_o). Just don't want the costs of an LLC(esp. here in Cali) until we are ready to sell our game.

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Original post by Avneet I wish to add to this question because mine is alike. I am currently opening a Sole Proprietorship right now while my team and I continue developing our game. This way it's a registered company so we can market as we develop and future investors or even game article sites trust us as real developers. Also I can start trade marking our game name and copyrighting the work. Than when the time comes to start selling, we will have a lawyer convert the company into an LLC along with all the assets that were originally a part of the Sole Proprietorship. Does this seem like a good idea? I don't mind paying any costs for having a Sole Proprietorship opened while we aren't making profits(maybe sell t-shirts or something 0_o). Just don't want the costs of an LLC(esp. here in Cali) until we are ready to sell our game.

You don't have to register your LLC in the state you live in. Foreign companies register in Delaware all the time because its very cheap. The thing about the sole proprietorship is if your company every got sued then you and your personal belongings are up for grabs.

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Original post by jtagge75 Quote: Original post by Avneet I wish to add to this question because mine is alike. I am currently opening a Sole Proprietorship right now while my team and I continue developing our game. This way it's a registered company so we can market as we develop and future investors or even game article sites trust us as real developers. Also I can start trade marking our game name and copyrighting the work. Than when the time comes to start selling, we will have a lawyer convert the company into an LLC along with all the assets that were originally a part of the Sole Proprietorship. Does this seem like a good idea? I don't mind paying any costs for having a Sole Proprietorship opened while we aren't making profits(maybe sell t-shirts or something 0_o). Just don't want the costs of an LLC(esp. here in Cali) until we are ready to sell our game. You don't have to register your LLC in the state you live in. Foreign companies register in Delaware all the time because its very cheap. The thing about the sole proprietorship is if your company every got sued then you and your personal belongings are up for grabs.

Sorry, this is terrible advice for a small business. You SHOULD register your LLC in the state where you'll be operating your business. The benefits of registering as an LLC in a different state are pretty much non-existent.

The advantage of incorporating as an LLC is that you shield your personal assets from the liability incurred by your business (e.g lawsuits). Registering as a sole proprietor does not give you that protection and whoever is listed as the owner is still personally liable for the debts incurred by the business. Registering an LLC in Delaware does not actually save you money in California because you still need to file with the Secretary of State in order to qualify to do business here which means you will have to pay franchise taxes. Check out sba.gov to get more info on starting a business and typical start-up questions.

Well I knew about the protections of an LLC, but I was only going to have a Sole Proprietorship opened while we develop. It's not for when we are ready to sell. It's specifically for the years while I'm developing so I actually have a company registered and can advertise with it and find future investors better than having no company. Before I ever planned to get the business with revenue going, I would transfer the Sole Proprietorship into an LLC with a lawyer and have all assets into the company and no longer on myself :D

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Original post by madelelaw Quote: Original post by jtagge75 Quote: Original post by Avneet I wish to add to this question because mine is alike. I am currently opening a Sole Proprietorship right now while my team and I continue developing our game. This way it's a registered company so we can market as we develop and future investors or even game article sites trust us as real developers. Also I can start trade marking our game name and copyrighting the work. Than when the time comes to start selling, we will have a lawyer convert the company into an LLC along with all the assets that were originally a part of the Sole Proprietorship. Does this seem like a good idea? I don't mind paying any costs for having a Sole Proprietorship opened while we aren't making profits(maybe sell t-shirts or something 0_o). Just don't want the costs of an LLC(esp. here in Cali) until we are ready to sell our game. You don't have to register your LLC in the state you live in. Foreign companies register in Delaware all the time because its very cheap. The thing about the sole proprietorship is if your company every got sued then you and your personal belongings are up for grabs. Sorry, this is terrible advice for a small business. You SHOULD register your LLC in the state where you'll be operating your business. The benefits of registering as an LLC in a different state are pretty much non-existent.

He said he didn't like the costs of setting up a LLC in his own state. Which is only $89, nothing compared to the $500 for Illinois (which is why I registered in Iowa for $50). I should have said the LLC fee varies by state and if California is to expensive another state is an option for a lower fee. Maybe you should reread the post because nowhere did I say there was any benefits to registering in another state.