I have noticed that several people who post here know much about politics and the state of the world. Therefore, I would like to ask a question in the hope that you all might answer it and increase my understanding. What is the point of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? I've seen a lot of stuff on TV recently about the need for more troops, time and money to "accomplish the mission". What exactly is the mission? They talk about it as though everyone knows what it is; I for one, do not know. Would someone be so kind as to enlighten me?

In Afghanistan were still trying to get rid of the taliban.

they have bigger dicks.

Quote: Original post by biki_
they are bigger dicks.

I'm don't count myself as one of those knowledgeable about politics, but at least the public justification for those wars is to

a) protect rich countries from being attacked by religious fanatics. If the US only tried to defend from a thread, it would mean tighter and tighter security, which reduces the living quality of Americans and costs a lot more than a war, given the area that needs to be protected. Also, imagine two fencers. One only attacks. One only defends. Who will win?

b) free the people being oppressed in those countries. The are tolerant Islam people and hardliners. Some groups of hardliners whose names we all hear on TV often enough capture entire territories and force their antiquated world view on people, preventing democratic elections, attacking dissenters and so on.

"The Mission" then is to keep those hardliners out of a country long enough for the people to feel safe expressing their opinion and for a government to form that's capable of defending the country from the hardliners in the future.

That at least is what I've picked up from news and reports. How far politics, money or other motives are involved is always a matter of debate.

War is the health of the state.

The invasion of Iraq was to displace Saddam Hussein and find weapons of mass destruction. No WMD were found (although a large quantity of oil was), but Saddam was toppled and a new Iraqi government put in place.

The war in afghanistan is to overthrow Al-Qaeda, find Bin Laden and other high ranking Al-Qaeda figures and put them on trial for the strikes on New York (the invasion, made up of US forces and British forces, started a month after the 9/11 attacks directly in response to this).

In 2004, muslim extremists bombed 4 commuter trains in Madrid, and in 2005, 3 suicide bombers attacked London. Although it is claimed these attacks were not organised by Al-Qaeda (despite Al-Qaeda claiming responsibility for them), investigations found they were merely "inspired" by Al-Qaeda. It did however, give Britain and the rest of Europe plenty of reason to be staying in Afghanistan fighting the war.

Should we be in Afghanistan? Sure, if we don't retaliate to attacks on our countries, they will just keep coming. Whether the war is winnable is another matter - after 7 years we still haven't found Osama Bin Laden, and the taliban seem to have an endless supply of combatants willing to blow them self up for the cause.

On an end note - Good luck to all the soldiers out there. It's not a job i'd fancy doing, and it's quite ridiculous that they get paid less than an office worker for dodging bullets and bombs all day.

[Edited by - DaveMS on December 1, 2009 2:37:46 PM]

Quote: Original post by guyver23
I have noticed that several people who post here know much about politics and the state of the world. Therefore, I would like to ask a question in the hope that you all might answer it and increase my understanding.

What is the point of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? I've seen a lot of stuff on TV recently about the need for more troops, time and money to "accomplish the mission". What exactly is the mission? They talk about it as though everyone knows what it is; I for one, do not know.

The problem with politics is that it's so often based on preconceptions and personal opinions rather than science and factual data. So what would be the reason/mission for me?

Both countries are in a state of chaos. You* can't invade them and then just leave. For ethical reasons (people over there want to live a normal life just like you and me), and practical reasons (if it ever was a breeding ground for terrorism, it sure is now).

* not just the US, but the entire Western world

Quote: Original post by guyver23
What is the point of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

The war in Afghanistan was started because their government was supposedly protecting the people who committed 9/11, and were unapologetic about it.
The USA decided to replace this government with a non-evil one. The war is still ongoing because the country isn't stable yet. The old government is still fighting for their country against the new government.


The war in Iraq was started for literally no reason other than having a motive (grudge), the means and the opportunity (the general public believed the propaganda that Iraq was linked to 9/11). The USA tried to link them to 9/11 (they were even caught out *forging* evidence!), and made all sorts of illegal threats/demands/ultimatums, which Saddam actually cooperated with. Eventually they made the illegal demand of "get out of your country or we'll kill you", which obviously didn't cooperate with, and therefore the USA invaded his country and killed him.
The war is still ongoing, because the war severely destabilised the country and created a huge amount of terrorism there.

Quote: I've seen a lot of stuff on TV recently about the need for more troops, time and money to "accomplish the mission". What exactly is the mission? They talk about it as though everyone knows what it is; I for one, do not know.

The mission in Iraq is to return it to the peaceful state it was in before the war.

The mission in Afghanistan is to actually defeat the old government. They still have a strong presence and control much of the country from the shadows.

Quote: Original post by DaveMS
Whether the war is winnable is another matter - after 7 years we still haven't found Osama Bin Laden, and the taliban seem to have an endless supply of combatants willing to blow them self up for the cause.

This actually makes you wonder if the USA has deliberately created a real Emmanuel Goldstein out of Bin Laden... After all intelligence agencies in Pakistan and several European countries have confirmed his death, but still we're told that the bogeyman is still out there, plotting to get us, until we win the "war on terror" (which is never-ending, as terrorism is a *response* to war).

Quote: Original post by oliii
they are bigger dicks.

i was quoting george carlin.