Vaccinations & Nano-Chip technology

spek · 2009-11-13T12:51:05

Not sure about the rest of the world, but vaccinating for the Mexican flu, [Yes] or [No], is a hot topic here at the moment. I think I can handle that stupid flu and I have more trust in the natural immune system than bio-engineered stuff. But I also have a 1 year-old daughter. Yes or no... lot's of opinions on the world wide web, but what's true and what's bullcrap? Nano-chips is the latest hot addition. The government wants us all to get that vaccination without asking questions. I'm certainly not a docter so I can't really say wether it's bad or not. But I don't really trust the pharmaceutical party that make profit of it, neither do I trust the government. Not that I think they have evil plans in the first case; they just make stupid decisions all the time, so I'm not keen on following their advice immediately in this one either. On the other hand, it's hard to go with the opposite sound as well. Sure there are arguments that make you think, but most of them quickly turn into wild complot theories. For example, that nano-chip.... Instead of listening to dollar making companies, dumb politicians or screaming hippies, I'd like to hear the opinion from technical, stolid people. Very cool those nano-chips, but I bet that 99% of the screaming crowd doesn't even know what it is. And neither do I. When I see their innocent faces, I find it hard to believe that my government would implant me with all kind of crap with the ultimate goal to have absolute control. Nevertheless, throughout history tirany, slavery and oppression has always been there. 200 years ago someone would gain control with brute force, these days it's done much more subtile/disingenuous. I hate complot theories, but it certainly is true to some level that lot's of our (Western) behavior is influenced by commercials, (false)media, money, dirty deals, and so on. In the "free" West we have more ID documents, (security)camera's and tracking & tracing than any other country in the world. Checking, or even controlling our minds/behavior was, and still is, a valuable good for some people. So if there really are chips that can help them accomplishing this, either for good or bad, there will always be people interested. In fact, our own petdogs already have an ID chip. So wether complot theory thinkers are wrong or right, I have no doubt that there certainly are people willing to use these chips (secretly). But then let's move to the (technical) facts, that's why I'm posting it here at gamedev :). I'm not an expert on this, so I'll have to ask, do Nano-chips even exists? Sure, Intel or other hardware manufracturers can produce tiny stuff, but also microscopic chips that: - run without batteries/power... All chips I have seen must be powered somehow. And since they are placed in my body "where the sun doesn't shine" they won't be able to collect light energy either. - able to communicate without WiFi, GPS, Bloutooth or whatever If Docter Evil wants to see what we're doing on a big monitor, these chips must broadcast data somehow. Except from mobile phone, radio or satelite applications, most other variants are pretty weak. And whatever you choose, it also requires antenna's and other not so small(electrical) components... But wait a minute, if they want to track us, we already carry a mobile phone/PDA that can be tracked everywhere. why doing so difficult - have enough computing power to do... whatever it has to do Making a nano-thingy doing something simple is probably not impossible. But if we are talking about precise tracking, reading minds or even controlling people like zombies we're talking about SERIOUS requirements. How does it come that my beloved Arduino Microcontroller (named "Nano") is still a couple of inches big? And no, it really has not enough capabilities to store piles of data or accomplish huge tasks. Check out robot competitions. Amazing stuff, but everything except tiny and certainly still far away from true intelligent/horrific applications. - are cheap If nano-technology is practicable this date at all, I bet it costs pretty much to produce such sophisticated stuff. Complot thinkers often tell about the evil pharmaceutical giants or America & oil, doing everything for money. And now they want to implant expensive chips into MILLIONS of people? Unless the financial crisis was a coverage to produce these chips, this doesn't make sense. Dammit, now I'm starting to think complots myself as well. - are sustainable Let me put it this way, I don't think chips will survive long in my body after I had 15 beers and kebab at friday night. I guess there are techniques to protect the chip by putting it in some sort of cell, but still. The whole thing gets even more complex or gets less capabilities. And maybe I bleed, sweat or shit it out eventually? - can interact with me Yeah... how would you do that? I don't recall having USB plugs in my body, not even RS-232. I could imagine it can receive or send pulses into my nerve system or something, but then again, that tiny chip would have to truly complex stuff in that case. I thought most brain-experts don't even really know what's happening there. Allright, maybe that chip doesn't have to control my brain, store locations, send email through WiFi or survive the fluids from a saturday night party, but then what the heck else should it do? But please correct me if I'm wrong. Like I said, I'm no expert and maybe I really underestimate current technology. Or is this whole nano-chip story too much science-fiction (for now)? I'm curious what you think... maybe I'll store your thoughts in a big database... Greetings, Rick

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Started by spek November 10, 2009 05:49 PM

40 comments, last by visitor 15 years ago

spek

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November 13, 2009 02:32 AM

So now catched a cold because of the waiting? My girl often makes good old fashioned soup, I can send a bowl :) Although one of my jobs is actually at a "pharmaceutical" company (vitamines, not medicine), nothing can beat a warm drink, good soup, some rest and Polish cinamon alcohol on the nose&head when it comes to beating a flu.

Thanks for that link, that's what I meant with discussing nano-technology. I remember indeed dolphins, squerells or even flies would carry small devices for tracking or spying (military applications -> Isreal versus Iran). Don't know if it's all true, and maybe these radio transmitters are still far from nano sized. For work I made some logging & telemetric devices on agricultural machines, but injecting them into our body would be rather painfull as it's still the size of my fist. Some other people may enjoy that though :)

Nevertheless, technique keeps involving of course. I can't imagine why you would like to know where person X exactly is, unless it goes for criminals, finding missing children or scientific purposes. But in all those cases, we don't have to make it a big secret. We're already being tracked "willingly" at some degree (mobile phone connects with beacon, car passes road control device, using an ATM, etc.). Sigh, some guys even spend the whole day telling what they're doing on Twitter. Look, I'm brushing my teeth now!

Except from friends or stalkers, I think nobody uses this information though. Unless police has to charge you for some traffic violation. Many murders or terroristic deeds are 'solved' afterwards. In other words, they didn't check that person all the time. So, no I'm not (yet) really affraid of "Big Brother watching me". Although some persons get serious problems if their (drunk) stupidity was taped and spreaded on YouTube.

[FICTIONAL]
But now the fictional part. What IF they invent a chip someday that is being able to read or even control your mind? Ow, and before people start flaming me again, no I don't believe these chips are available, and even if they were, I don't see a good reason why the government would secretly use them now.

I think it's just a matter of time before such hardware is reality. Maybe it takes another 200 years, and maybe such a chip wouldn't be that small, but I don't think it's impossible. After all, organisms don't work on magical powers either. My guess is that such a chip would first be used on animals, and later on maybe on people with a 'handicap'; helping to walk, curing blind/deaf people, regulating rythm, suppressing aggression or bad addictions.

Later on such techniques might become available for the normal guy as well. How about a RAM chip that helps you remembering specific things exactly? Never forget an appointment, get A+ for your history tests, photographic memory, etc. Or a calculator. We humans are still way smarter than machines, but when it comes to calculations we're pretty vague->bad.

If this is possible, we can also exchange data. Send me a pic of your girlfriend... or can you please send me what you learned as I was too lazy... It's "just" a matter of being able to read&write to such a chip via our brains. Now I don't see that happening the next 30 years, but then again, 500 years ago the planet was flat, the sun orbitted around us, and God used to throw lightning bolts at us when he had a bad day again. Things can change quickly. Ow, BTW, personally I don't think we should turn into superhumans/cyborgs, but that's for ethical reasons.

Now IF all that stuff above will be possible one day, it won't be impossible to use it for "bad" purposes as well. If someone has a "wrong mind" (pedophily, extemely aggressive), it could be regristrated and send so a few hours later this person could be locked or eventually got his mind "cleansed". Not a bad thing when it's *only* used for these kind of situations. But... a "wrong mind" is a subjective matter. Who decides what's good or wrong? In our own past you ended up on a burning woodpile if you didn't worship the same God. That still goes for some countries these days (Taliban anyone?). Writing a critical note would also be enough to "dissapear" in some communistic countries. And as for the West, we also want to make sure everyone pays his taxes and follows the rules. That's what I meant to say in the first post; not all humans are so kind or tolerating. And there certainly are control freaks out there.

IF many people would get chips, just by buying themselves for their own good or like a standard implantation at birth, it's not so hard to add "extensions". We all buy Windows or another OS willingly, but do we exactly know what's happening inside? No, and 99% of the people do not care. Same thing with a chip. You buy to improve your life. Or you simply get it automatically because it has become common. Nothing wrong so far. But what if some government(or on a smaller scale) starts producing these chips on themselves and add a little piece of software/hardware to "correct" people? No vote for an united Europa? Turn the button a little bit. No Catholic/Muslim/Hindu/....? Add some sympathy for that religion. Gay feelings...? Change that testosteron level.

Allright, enough stories. Please don't pinpoint me on this text, it's just some thoughts. Not trying to convince anyone. But I find it quite interesting matter. In the first place to tease the fantasy, but also because lay some possible connections with reality. For one thing, I'm 99,9% sure that humans will use chips more and more(willingly) as additions to themselves. It's already happening:
http://www.kevinwarwick.com/
[/FICTIONAL]

Sorry for the long posts. Hard to compress that story for me. I hope you can tickly your fantasy a little bit with it :)
Rick

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November 13, 2009 11:22 AM

This is a really old story. My parents are into survival stuff, no bank accounts, they keep their money in gold, etc.
They've been convinced vaccines have chips in them since I was little.
They absolutely threw a fit when I had to get my shots in order to go to school.
They're convinced I already have a chip, and I guess my mild support of Obama only further confirmed this in their minds, lol.

Heck the only reason I have internet right now is because I told them I know how to avoid government monitoring of computers(I don't) ;)

We don't understand the mind nearly well enough to control it. Especially not with some tiny chip that would have to float around your blood stream and attach to some random part of your brain.

It doesn't even make sense, but I digress :)