Not sure about the rest of the world, but vaccinating for the Mexican flu, [Yes] or [No], is a hot topic here at the moment. I think I can handle that stupid flu and I have more trust in the natural immune system than bio-engineered stuff. But I also have a 1 year-old daughter. Yes or no... lot's of opinions on the world wide web, but what's true and what's bullcrap? Nano-chips is the latest hot addition. The government wants us all to get that vaccination without asking questions. I'm certainly not a docter so I can't really say wether it's bad or not. But I don't really trust the pharmaceutical party that make profit of it, neither do I trust the government. Not that I think they have evil plans in the first case; they just make stupid decisions all the time, so I'm not keen on following their advice immediately in this one either. On the other hand, it's hard to go with the opposite sound as well. Sure there are arguments that make you think, but most of them quickly turn into wild complot theories. For example, that nano-chip.... Instead of listening to dollar making companies, dumb politicians or screaming hippies, I'd like to hear the opinion from technical, stolid people. Very cool those nano-chips, but I bet that 99% of the screaming crowd doesn't even know what it is. And neither do I. When I see their innocent faces, I find it hard to believe that my government would implant me with all kind of crap with the ultimate goal to have absolute control. Nevertheless, throughout history tirany, slavery and oppression has always been there. 200 years ago someone would gain control with brute force, these days it's done much more subtile/disingenuous. I hate complot theories, but it certainly is true to some level that lot's of our (Western) behavior is influenced by commercials, (false)media, money, dirty deals, and so on. In the "free" West we have more ID documents, (security)camera's and tracking & tracing than any other country in the world. Checking, or even controlling our minds/behavior was, and still is, a valuable good for some people. So if there really are chips that can help them accomplishing this, either for good or bad, there will always be people interested. In fact, our own petdogs already have an ID chip. So wether complot theory thinkers are wrong or right, I have no doubt that there certainly are people willing to use these chips (secretly). But then let's move to the (technical) facts, that's why I'm posting it here at gamedev :). I'm not an expert on this, so I'll have to ask, do Nano-chips even exists? Sure, Intel or other hardware manufracturers can produce tiny stuff, but also microscopic chips that: - run without batteries/power... All chips I have seen must be powered somehow. And since they are placed in my body "where the sun doesn't shine" they won't be able to collect light energy either. - able to communicate without WiFi, GPS, Bloutooth or whatever If Docter Evil wants to see what we're doing on a big monitor, these chips must broadcast data somehow. Except from mobile phone, radio or satelite applications, most other variants are pretty weak. And whatever you choose, it also requires antenna's and other not so small(electrical) components... But wait a minute, if they want to track us, we already carry a mobile phone/PDA that can be tracked everywhere. why doing so difficult - have enough computing power to do... whatever it has to do Making a nano-thingy doing something simple is probably not impossible. But if we are talking about precise tracking, reading minds or even controlling people like zombies we're talking about SERIOUS requirements. How does it come that my beloved Arduino Microcontroller (named "Nano") is still a couple of inches big? And no, it really has not enough capabilities to store piles of data or accomplish huge tasks. Check out robot competitions. Amazing stuff, but everything except tiny and certainly still far away from true intelligent/horrific applications. - are cheap If nano-technology is practicable this date at all, I bet it costs pretty much to produce such sophisticated stuff. Complot thinkers often tell about the evil pharmaceutical giants or America & oil, doing everything for money. And now they want to implant expensive chips into MILLIONS of people? Unless the financial crisis was a coverage to produce these chips, this doesn't make sense. Dammit, now I'm starting to think complots myself as well. - are sustainable Let me put it this way, I don't think chips will survive long in my body after I had 15 beers and kebab at friday night. I guess there are techniques to protect the chip by putting it in some sort of cell, but still. The whole thing gets even more complex or gets less capabilities. And maybe I bleed, sweat or shit it out eventually? - can interact with me Yeah... how would you do that? I don't recall having USB plugs in my body, not even RS-232. I could imagine it can receive or send pulses into my nerve system or something, but then again, that tiny chip would have to truly complex stuff in that case. I thought most brain-experts don't even really know what's happening there. Allright, maybe that chip doesn't have to control my brain, store locations, send email through WiFi or survive the fluids from a saturday night party, but then what the heck else should it do? But please correct me if I'm wrong. Like I said, I'm no expert and maybe I really underestimate current technology. Or is this whole nano-chip story too much science-fiction (for now)? I'm curious what you think... maybe I'll store your thoughts in a big database... Greetings, Rick

I haven't heard anything about H1N1 and nanotech. I'm going to get vaccinated against H1N1. I have a chronic respiratory condition.

The id's planted on dogs are quite a bit larger than nanoscale. RFID (radio frequency id), the chips are about the size of a grain of rice.

Here is the latest article about nanotech that I found interesting.

Nanoparticles can damage DNA at a distance: study

Quote:
LONDON (Reuters) - Nanoparticles can damage the DNA of cells from a distance, even without crossing the cellular barriers that protect certain parts of the body, British researchers said on Thursday.
...
Scientists from the University of Bristol tested the impact of high concentrations of metal nanoparticles on DNA in a laboratory experiment, which they stressed was not designed to accurately replicate conditions in the body.

"To our great surprise, not only did we see damage on the other side of the barrier but we saw as much damage on the other side of the barrier as if we'd actually not had it there at all," researcher Patrick Case told reporters.

Case and colleagues found the nanoparticles didn't pass through the multi-layer cell wall to cause the damage, but in fact generated signaling molecules that were then transmitted to cells on the other side.

The scientists, who reported their work in the journal Nature Nanotechnology, said the findings suggested that direct and indirect effects of nanoparticles on cells were equally important when considering their use in medicine.
...

Do you really believe that these vaccines contain some "nano chips" that are going to interface with your CNS and control your mind ? Come on...

There are at least three different companies manufacturing a vaccine against H1N1, all from different countries. Dozens of countries all over the globe are starting vaccination campaigns. The chemical composition of the vaccines is not that complicated, and can be double checked and reverse engineered by any public or private lab on earth. Do you really think that all of them are onto the conspiracy ?

That said, the whole thing is obviously an extremely profitable business for the pharmaceutical industry. While the vaccine undoubtly works, I'm not sure if I'm getting vaccinated. We're supposed to get vouchers for a free shot from the government in the mail sometime later this month. I'll wait and see. I think my immune system can handle a flu.

This is the first I've heard of any allegedly mind-controlling chips... Everything else has simply been paranoia about an RFID tag, which is technically possible, but still doesn't really make sense to do. Ok, lets say you tag everyone who gets a flu shot with a hidden scanable serial number... Now what? Install 80 bajillion RFID scanners everywhere so you can track their movement at any given time, and hope that no one notices or realizes how simple this is to defeat? There are already easier, cheaper, and passive ways to track people, which don't require some secret evil plot to implement. This conspiracy theory just doesn't seem plausible to me.

As for H1N1, what a joke. It's just a flu, and is being blown way out of proportion by fear-mongering sensationalist media. The regular seasonal flu kills some people too, but both of them have over a 99.9% survival rate. If I get it, I'll feel like crap for a week or so, and then life goes on, but that's unlikely to happen. I don't get the regular flu, and I don't bother getting a flu shot for that, so there's no point in me doing anything special for H1N1. I'd actually be more concerned with the side-effects of these flu shots, especially the H1N1 which has been rushed and apparently not fully tested... I'd rather just get the flu than to put that crap into my body. The flu is an inconvenience, not the black death. Next thing you know, we'll be freaking out and injecting ourselves all the time to avoid the common cold. I prefer to just wash my hands and believe in some basic hygiene; it works pretty well.

It's all LIES.

You'll be better worring about getting AIDS/Hepatitis from your partner than that stupid mediatic flue.

Follow my advice. Do yourself a favor. Take a rest from TV.

Mind controlling nano-chips is utter madness. I'm having trouble figuring out whether you are serious with this statement or whimsically speculating about science fiction. So, for the two cases, two answers:

But first, personally I'm not getting vaccinated, even though it is offered to me free of charge. I'm not going that route primarily because it has been roughly 11 years since I've come down with any flu/cold/etc.

Serious:

Regarding nanochips: It won't be cheap, it won't be practical, and it's not in your flu shot. It is just plain easier to convince you to do things like buy products or be afraid of things through marketing campaigns than with mind controlling super-robots. Also, drugs are easier, and more realistic

Seriously.... Think. I beg of you. There are no micro-robots in your flu vaccine

Not serious:

It is somewhat reasonable to assume that any party capable of producing nanochips that can be injected inside of you and control your brain [which is, in my opinion, nobody] could likely make them live off the land as well. 'Live off the land' meaning metabolize stuff inside your body just like the rest of your body does. That handles the whole power thing. And with that handled, there isn't actually a whole lot that a robot like this would have to do in a time critical way. What it WOULD have to do is learn your brain though, and that is a hard task. It'll require cooperation in a big way, and likely a massive number of bots spread all through your brain.

More interesting than whether or not it can survive your inevitable binge drinking is whether or not it can survive all the other stuff that you as a macro-scale creature can survive that is hazardous to modern electronics. Stuff like when you stare at your food spinning about in the microwave oven. Everything from cell phones to computer monitors to old-style tvs emit electrical fields that don't play nice with electronics that are too small to be shielded. But there are tons of bots, right? And they can afford to lose a few thousand of their number every time you decide crank the volume up on your headphones. Not likely any of them'll survive something like an MRI scan though.

It isn't likely that they would be able to communicate with the wider world alone though. If they learn your brain though, they wouldn't have to. They just use you to communicate on their behalf. If they can understand things that you see and hear, then talking to the robots is a piece of cake.

Quote: Original post by owl
It's all LIES.

You'll be better worring about getting AIDS/Hepatitis from your partner than that stupid mediatic flue.

Follow my advice. Do yourself a favor. Take a rest from TV.

ah shit better tell my brother the reason he's puking and can barely move right now is a lie manufactured by TV

With the number of people who I know with it, I can't see why so many people are so hesitant to get the vaccine, it's ridiculously easy to contract

Quote: Original post by eedok

Quote: Original post by owl
It's all LIES.

You'll be better worring about getting AIDS/Hepatitis from your partner than that stupid mediatic flue.

Follow my advice. Do yourself a favor. Take a rest from TV.

ah shit better tell my brother the reason he's puking and can barely move right now is a lie manufactured by TV

With the number of people who I know with it, I can't see why so many people are so hesitant to get the vaccine, it's ridiculously easy to contract

How did he get it?

@Wess22
Totally agree. Same with 9/11 theories, why would they that? The risk of leaking such an evil plan seems way bigger than the benefits(?which?).

@Yann L & Drigovas
Hold on a second, I never said I believe these rumors, see my arguments in the lower half of the first post. And probably I won't get that vaccination, simply because I'm healthy and I should survive a flu like this one, not because I'm afraid of chips or something. I only still wonder what to do for my little daughter. Like I said, I have faith in our natural immune system. Then again, we all have been vaccinated for hundreds of things already (chicken pocks, Polio, Malaria ...). Please read again before telling me I'm a conspiracy thinker.

@Owl
I rarely watch TV. If there is one device that actually control people minds, it is that damn television :) It ussually makes my girlfriend think she needs to buy all kinds of crap.


I think nano-chips is nonsense. Not that I trust our leaders/our government 100%, but simply because its technically impossible. At least, I think so. Nevertheless, quite some people believe these rumors just like there are plenty of theories about Rosswell, 9/11, fake moonlandings, and so on. Personally, I think it's just fantasy on the loose. I'm a sceptical person so I rarely anything, only if facts can support it. Which made me think... how far is that Nano-technology anyway?

I can scream and yell that nano-chips, Osama Bin Laden or anything else is totally bullshit, or in fact reality. Either way, I need some facts & proving to support my statement, don't I? That's why I was wonderings what's possible or not with nano-technology. I think current technology is able to build mini chips, but from my own experience with hardware and microcontrollers, I think:
A- these chips will not survice our hazardous bodies
B- these chips are too expensive
C- these chips cannot interact with humans (so no mind control or capturing)
D- these chips cant do much at all since their physical shape just doesn't allow (yet) --> so what to do with such chips anyway?
E- these chips cannot send data through WiFi, radio or anything else. Plus tracking & tracing is already possible via our mobile phones. So why use chips?
F- These chips cannot be powered via a battery, solar energy or net... so how do they run?

But before using these arguments, I just like to verify if they are correct. Like I said, maybe I underestamate.




Apart from the Mexican flu, I find it interesting to know the possibilities with this, either for good or bad usage. I guess nano-tech for such purposes is not available the next 20/30 years. But never say never. 50 years ago we had Star Wars, talking cars, robots, lasers, and so on. We still don't fly spaceships and we don't use lasercannons either in Afghanistan. But computers became 1000 times smaller, industrial robots are normal by now, everyone wears mobile phones, and you can actually buy a talking car (saw it on the news yesterday)! And although I'm against for ethical reasons, cloning, DNA modification or genetic modifications are coming closer every day.

So what IF such chips do exists? I have no idea what to do with them, but that's maybe because I'm really not interested in tracing, controlling or reading other peoples mind. Peace man. But don't forget there are quite some bad people on this planet. If Stalin, Hitler or Mao had such technology, what would hold them for not using it (except the costs)? And there still are idiots leading countries. Il Kim Sung II, that mad man (can't spell his name) in Iran, and so on.

I don't think our governments will secretly implant them if they could. Maybe criminals would get an implant (some of them already have one for tracking purposes, though not nano-sized). But then again... I don't believe conspiracy theories, but I'm neither convinced of the people goodness. Millions of peoples have already died in the past for "wrong opinions", colliding religions, slavery, conquoring landspace etcetera. So what makes us different now?


Don't want to sound like Micheal Moore or a conspiracy thinker. Just like to check some facts and fantasize about "what IF"":) Nothing wrong with that, is it?
Rick

[Edited by - spek on November 11, 2009 2:41:06 AM]

Quote: Original post by Wes22
This is the first I've heard of any allegedly mind-controlling chips... Everything else has simply been paranoia about an RFID tag, which is technically possible, but still doesn't really make sense to do. Ok, lets say you tag everyone who gets a flu shot with a hidden scanable serial number... Now what? Install 80 bajillion RFID scanners everywhere so you can track their movement at any given time, and hope that no one notices or realizes how simple this is to defeat? There are already easier, cheaper, and passive ways to track people, which don't require some secret evil plot to implement. This conspiracy theory just doesn't seem plausible to me.

Fluoridation paranoia rebirthed as a conspiracy to impart tracking devices in people using flu vaccine. Zombieland.

Quote: Original post by Wes22
As for H1N1, what a joke. It's just a flu, and is being blown way out of proportion by fear-mongering sensationalist media. The regular seasonal flu kills some people too, but both of them have over a 99.9% survival rate. If I get it, I'll feel like crap for a week or so, and then life goes on, but that's unlikely to happen. I don't get the regular flu, and I don't bother getting a flu shot for that, so there's no point in me doing anything special for H1N1. I'd actually be more concerned with the side-effects of these flu shots, especially the H1N1 which has been rushed and apparently not fully tested... I'd rather just get the flu than to put that crap into my body. The flu is an inconvenience, not the black death. Next thing you know, we'll be freaking out and injecting ourselves all the time to avoid the common cold. I prefer to just wash my hands and believe in some basic hygiene; it works pretty well.

I think it's reckless to describe a pathogen capable of killing people as a joke. The media response on the other hand feeds viewer panic more than it provides information. It isn't funny but it is a joke. Unfunny joke.

Large numbers of people have been given the vaccine. Do you know of any reports of negative side effects? H1N1 vaccine was tested enough for it to be given to people on Wall Street. Some people complained: Wall Street bankers shouldn't get H1N1 vaccine, group says. Other people complained that prisoners at Gitmo were given the vaccine. Was that all for show? What show was all that for? Anyway.