I've been interested in technology (mainly computers and other electronics) and programming for quite a while now. And although I enjoy programming as a hobby very much, I have some doubts of going into programming / software development as a career. Instead I'm aiming towards other computer careers like consulting or computer security. I also have my eyes (partially) set in finance and economics, although I don't know if I'll do as well in that career track because I'm more of a tech-y person. Now let me explain - I find programming as a hobby very interesting. I enjoy the problem solving that lies underneath it and I enjoy creating applications (especially Web applications) very time. However, the thing is, I don't enjoy working on large-scale projects. I have created one before and finished it, but once I get to a certain point, it just feels like all of the code is very unorganized and requires a complete rewrite. Also I don't like being told what projects to work on, instead I like to pick my own. And finally, I figured out that I program best when under little pressure and stress. I don't want to have deadlines to complete when working on a programming project, instead I enjoy the freedom and independence of being able to develop and work on my projects anytime I like. ^ That's why I want to program as a hobby, but not choose it for a career. What are your viewpoints on this? Do you hold the same opinions as me or do you prefer vice versa?

That's fine, you're free to have your opinion and live your own life.

Note that working on a large-scale project alone is *very* different than working on one with 20-30+ other competent people. Yes, code gets "messy" towards the end of a project. That doesn't mean it requires a complete rewrite except where the design was severely mispredicted, or if the crust on the code means the code is very bug-ridden as opposed to bug-free (two very different kinds of crust)

As far as being told what to work on, the more competent you are, the more freedom you get. If you write buggy, unstable code, you're not going to have the competence that will make people trust your work. However, the more you do to increase your competence, the more likely you are to have fun in life.

Working on a medium to large team can increase your competence very quickly as you observe lots of people solving a gigantic pile of problems at a rate much quicker than one person can think through it. Also, having the pressure (and pride!) of responsibility will make you push yourself to achieve.

Learning to program under deadlines is good (IMO) - it encourages you to not waste a lot of time trying to come up with that "perfect" code design solution, and instead focus on making the game awesome. You're more likely to complete more of the project quicker, which will build your competence so you can do better work in the same amount of time in the future. Embrace the pressure and turn it into inspiration and adrenaline that will make you do some cool stuff.

This thread caught my attention because I'm in somewhat of the same position you are, but I'm only 17. I have a couple friends who are going to go into the game programming industry, such as programming, level design, and other things, and it seems perfect for me since I'm a good programmer and good with computers.

The problem is, I hate the thought of being stuck sitting in front of a computer for hours a day debugging/programming a small module of a game, without much freedom as to what I'm assigned to fix/program and having to keep up with strict deadlines and keeping up to the team's standards. I still have a lot of time before I decide what I'm going to specialize in, and I know I want it to be computer-related, but it's hard to decide.

Quote: Original post by Tenac
The problem is, I hate the thought of being stuck sitting in front of a computer for hours a day debugging/programming a small module of a game

Maybe programming isn't what drives you. Personally, I love pouring hours into writing and debugging code, so it's a good fit for a career. Nothing wrong with you not liking it, you should try to find your passion

Quote: Original post by Tenac
, without much freedom as to what I'm assigned to fix/program

This really depends on your team size, employer, and competence. If you're on a small team, everyone shares more responsibilities. If you're incompetent, nobody wants you running wild in the code base until you've proven yourself. This isn't just games programming, this is just life.

Quote: Original post by Tenac
and having to keep up with strict deadlines

No matter what business you're in, you need to ship products to make money. "Strict deadlines" usually mean you cut features from the current game, and try to get them into the next one. This goes on forever, or until your company doesn't have enough money to pay you.

Quote: Original post by Tenac
and keeping up to the team's standards.

No matter what field you're in, if you're not trying to meet or exceed the competence of your peers, you're going to risk growing stale and into a boring routine of mediocrity. You also risk losing your job to everyone around you that is getting better. It's a "good thing" to get better - nobody wants to be a noob forever trying to figure out how to draw a triangle on the screen for 5 years - you want to get better and tackle more interesting problems.

Moving to the Lounge.

Yep, very familiar point of view.

Although I never aimed for game development, I do have a technological background (computational linguistics) and my first job was as a programmar. Now that trick got really old really fast. :)

On the upside, I made it to consultant in about a year and a half, after 'accidently' ending up at a customer for a presenation due to my boss being unavailable. Turned out that interacting with those tricky tricky customers was much more my thing! Few years later now, and I'm enjoying my life as a consultant for a multinational. Nifty.

Why is the consultants life great?

- Not so much the hassle of crunching through a program for a year or two. Variety in work! Go to customers, crunch through long long meetings, write documents, think up grand schemes, work out requirements for applications...

- ... but if you play your cards right (and you are a technical consultant), you still get to build the occasional Proof of Concept program. If you play it really right, you build these when you want to; the other cases you delegate.


Why is the consultants life not so great?

- There is a certain... simplicity to programming (no offense people!) You are handed a problem, you solve it. You have to crunch your intelligence to solve it... but regardless, the playing field is clear. You, and source code. As a consultant, you continually deal with /people/. People are nice. People don't know what they want, though... Often, gathering requirements from customers is like herding cats.

- You never know what to expect when you walk through a customers door. You expect a meeting about a technical solution to problem X: they suddenly think you are going to give a masterclass about how they can use technology Y. Now how on earth are you going to manage expectations then? :) Being a programmer has the nice benefit that when you are blindsided, you can blink, think for a moment, and ask your collegues. As a consultant, you are often on your own in a different enviroment.

Mmm... so it really depends on what you are looking for, ne? ;)

Quote: Original post by PouyaCat
- There is a certain... simplicity to programming (no offense people!) You are handed a problem, you solve it. You have to crunch your intelligence to solve it... but regardless, the playing field is clear. You, and source code. As a consultant, you continually deal with /people/. People are nice. People don't know what they want, though... Often, gathering requirements from customers is like herding cats.

As a coder I wouldn't take offense at this, heck I agree completely, it's one of the reasons I enjoy coding so much because of this simplicity and the fact the rules and goals are clearly setout (well, "clearly" is probably subjective given C++ but still [grin]).

As for the OP and others like him in the thread; congrats, you've figured out sooner rather than later isn't for you.

There isn't much more to say to that *shrugs*

Personally, I thrive under a bit of pressure and I prefer having others direct me with their view of the 'big picture' (so much so I reenforce the point that I have no desire to be a lead coder, it just isn't me, I lack the orgainisational skills for starters). Fortunately I'm also recongised as being good at what I do thus I'm generally left alone to sort my tasks out as I like and from time to time been given the choice about what I work on (with discussion with those I work with of course).

End of the day however its like any other job where you work directly for someone else; you turn up, you do your tasks, you go home and at some point you get paid.

Same here.

I love programming too as a hobby.

My current work is in finance, and next year I plan to go for MBA. I'm currently studing a degree in animation, though.

Interesting life.

Oh, programming has been my hobby for, like, 20 years.

That's exactly how I see it.

I enjoy programming for University projects and my own personal stuff, but when I did software engineering internships a couple of years ago I absolutely hated it.

Being forced into using ancient technology to write endless unit tests for an underused system (and when developing this system the requirements were clearly bolted down and you had to do your design in advance and have the development lead approve it before you implemented it - hardly requires any creativity or thinking because the development lead will just chuck it all away and force you to do it in a prescribed manner in any case) I didn't care about really sucked the life out of me, and it was boring and highly tedious as well as being unrewarding, poorly paid and not offering any obvious or serious opportunities to enhance or advance your career. These guys were all in their mid-30s or older and basically rotting - their careers were going nowhere but the thing is that none of them were stupid and some were very highly skilled... yet their careers had stalled.

Not the road I want to go down. I am planning on postgraduate study initially to branch out within the IT industry and, if it comes to it, another postgraduate degree to break out of the IT industry if things get too much.

There's no recession at all if you have the skills.

I always have to explain to non-computer people why I don't want to work as a programmer. They always say the same thing when they see my games - why on earth are you doing X for a living when you could earn silly money doing that.

Even if the opportunities in game development were available where I live, and even if I wasn't competing with people with formal qualifications, I'd still hate to have to program something. Like the OP, I enjoy programming largely because I can pick and choose what I do, when I do it and what timescales I work to (i.e. none).

So no, you are not alone in feeling like this and I personally think it is pretty sensible to realise that working as a programmer will not be anything like programming for a hobby.

All of my professional career has been based more around working with people rather than technology and I suspect I'd really miss that if I was stuck in a cubicle writing code all day surrounded by other geeks like me [smile].