Recently I have been thinking about what you need to do to make a game for PSN/XBLA. I know XNA/Community/Indie games only require a "dev fee" and some emulation/connect-to-360 software but I was wondering if you actually had to have dev hardware to make a PSN/XBLA game as well as an official license? You can make some very complex game once you go beyond the XNA-mark but that also seems to imply official developer status, but that is just my speculation so I was wondering if someone or some people actually knew more solid details. It's just that XNA has a size limit while PSN/XBLA arcade games can actually be a few gigs in size, and if I was to make a PSN/XBLA arcade game I would like it to be commercial-quality(actually finding quality programmers,etc which might mean they would need dev hardware too?) To say this more question-like Does anyone know any solid details on making a PSN/XBLA game?

Well, some basics (pardon me if you know this stuff!) is you'll have to spend some money to get the development kits.

Development kits aren't cheap. I'm not sure how much the 360 kits are but i heard the PS3 dev kits used to be 10,000$ apeice.

Also you are just leasing the dev kits, they still belong to microsoft / sony.

Also, when making a regular game on a platform you have to go through a process where they test your game against a list of guidelines that they have for their consoles.

You have to pay a substantial fee to submit your game for approval (im sure its atleast a few grand for regular games, not sure if XBLA/PSN games are cheaper) and if you fail, you fail and have to pay again (you might get a free retest if you fail or something, not sure the details).

So it's pretty darn expensive a task!

I've looked into this a little bit for XBLA and it says you need to prove you are able to create a professional game (ie you have created a professional game in the past or you have people working for you who have).

I am a programmer with a handful of years exp working on professional video games so i'm assuming i'd qualify but not 100% certain on that if you have a similar level of experience :P

hope this is a little helpful!

I see, and I am guessing XNA is a lot cheaper with the only need is emulation software?

Quote: Original post by BrioCyrain
I see, and I am guessing XNA is a lot cheaper with the only need is emulation software?

Cheaper and less complex.
To publish on PSN/XBLA you need to be a registered developer. To get developer status you will need to either:
1. Convince a publisher to buy your game (they then help you get dev status) or
2. Pitch the concept to Sony/Microsoft and convince them that you have the industry experience and finance necessary to complete a game to a commercial standard. - Note: Having a great idea is not enough.

If you get developer status you need to buy development kits and test kits. These have come down in price since the days of the SNES and Genesis (those kits cost about $10,000) but you are still looking at a couple of thousand dollars and may need more than one depending on team size.

Then you have to make the game, which will be more expensive/complex than doing an XNA game because the console companies will expect you to support extra features such as multi-player, online play, Avatars, achievements/trophies and localisation into a number of different languages. In addition you need to make sure your game meets a raft of technical/design requirements in regard to how it interacts with the console - all of this requires testing which means weeks or even months of testing and debugging by MS/Sony.

Conclusion
MS/Sony aren't going to go to the expense and effort of getting your game through the above process unless they are sure that you are actually able to finish what you start. That means you will almost certainly need proven console/PC game dev experience (either published games working at a commercial developer or a successful indie game).

If you don't have proven commercial experience they will almost certainly direct you towards XNA/PSPGo in order that you prove yourself there first.

[Edited by - Obscure on October 8, 2009 11:05:19 PM]

Quote: Original post by Obscure
2. Pitch the concept to Sony/Microsoft and convince them that you have the industry experience and finance necessary to complete a game to a commercial standard. - Note: Having a great idea is not enough.

Just having the experience isn't always enough either. I was on a indie team with people that had several games to their credit (and a real office) and Microsoft turned down our game for going on XBLA.

You also need to have a non home based office for them to want to sell you a dev kit. They can come and audit you to see if you are taking the correct security measures to make sure a dev kit isn't stolen. Getting a publisher might be a bit different but they would probably want you to come to the office as they could get in trouble for letting a dev kit out of their office.

Both Sony and MS are concerned about the quality of the games being offered for download on their respective storefronts and therefore their gate-keeping protocols beyond the standard licensing paperwork can be somewhat opaque. Even established indies with several shipped titles are having difficulty getting approval to self-publish on MS. Sony is a bit more open, but still only seems to be supporting "proven" developers or successful games on other platforms. PSPgo might open that window a bit more.

Quote: Original post by jtagge75
Just having the experience isn't always enough either. I was on a indie team with people that had several games to their credit (and a real office) and Microsoft turned down our game for going on XBLA.

He was talking about getting licensed to develop on the platform.
You're talking about getting concept approval.
Two different things.

Quote: Original post by Tom Sloper
He was talking about getting licensed to develop on the platform.
You're talking about getting concept approval.
Two different things.

Yeah licensed to develop on the Xbox with what was at the time a in progress demo using a expensive game engine that supports the Xbox. I was saying that just because you have experience doesn't mean it makes it any easier to get licensed. Indie doesn't have to mean broke and asking for table scraps from the big boys. The game was released to PC and is the main reason I have the job I have now.

Having experience does make it easier to get licenses but you also have to have a concept that Microsoft want. Despite what some people think Microsoft's first loyalty is to their own business and they limit the games that get approved to those which meet their needs. They aren't just worried about the quality of the games but also the range of genres and also that the games coming out match their vision for the console. This last one is often overlooked by developers.

The above means that even if you are experienced enough they may not approve your game if they have something similar in production or if they feel it does meet their vision for the Xbox platform.

Quote: Original post by Obscure
The above means that even if you are experienced enough they may not approve your game if they have something similar in production or if they feel it does meet their vision for the Xbox platform.

Off the record we were told the game didn't match what they thought a Xbox game should be. Officially the concept was just turned down for further production. And because we didn't get approval there was no way to buy a dev kit.

If you are some big company like EA and you got Billy on speed dial I'm sure you can just give him a call and he will FedEx you a dev kit next day air to the new studio. For the little guys just starting out you need to have a reason for them to want to sell you the dev kit. Usually this means having a concept for a game they think will work on that console.

The game I worked on has had some PC success and I think mostly because of this it is supposed to be out on a console by Christmas. So if you strike out the first time like we did it might pay in the long run to still push a concept as a PC game and show that it can be successful and you might get another console shot for that game or the next one.