hey there. i am just a teenager programmer that uses directx and C++ for more than a year now,yet been programming for 6 years and i do actually hope to get a job as a game developer one day(maybe next year?). yet i see a lot of who people talk about degrees,computer science degree or game developing degree and how much one of these is necessary to get a job. the thing is,my high school grades are probably not high enough to get me into a university not to mention i probably wont have enough money for a degree,so i rather just try and get a job as game developer first. but is it possible? are there any companys out there that dont care if i got a degree or high grades but actually care if i got brain,experience and a good demo? simply what i am asking is, do i have a chance getting a job as game programmer with no degree?

Read this.

It's possible. However it'll be much, much harder to secure a job without that degree. You will need to compensate the lack of schooling with working project demos' that have well documented code. You will need to demonstrate how you approach creating the game and getting around issues and problems that pop up through development.

You'll need to work under your own steam and motivation for what could be years after high school graduation. Making efforts to attend game related events to network and get your name out there.

At the end of the day you need to prove to a studio that you are a skilled, passionate and effective game programmer.

We all do. Degree or not.

Quote: Original post by DesignerWatts
Read this.

It's possible. However it'll be much, much harder to secure a job without that degree. You will need to compensate the lack of schooling with working project demos' that have well documented code. You will need to demonstrate how you approach creating the game and getting around issues and problems that pop up through development.

You'll need to work under your own steam and motivation for what could be years after high school graduation. Making efforts to attend game related events to network and get your name out there.

At the end of the day you need to prove to a studio that you are a skilled, passionate and effective game programmer.

We all do. Degree or not.

about that article,i cant blame the askers for starting with "is it possible",they(including me) are people who yet got to taste the industry and dont know everything about it(that's why they ask questions),i for example thought that in the industry it could be obvious that every one who wants to join must have a degree. you are getting my point right?

also thanks for the answer,i actually am making a game by myself(talking about a relatively big game for one person) which i hope to use as a demo. considering it is big for one person,and touches zones like physics,ai,multiplayer and maybe in the future graphics too i think i could use this as an impressive demo.
thanks for the advice and the answer :)

Quote: are there any companys out there that dont care if i got a degree or high grades but actually care if i got brain,experience and a good demo?

My question is, why do you assume those things are mutually exclusive?. Companies care that you have a good brain, and experience (Although the kind of experience they care about is professional experience), and they consider a degree in computer science to be proof of that. It shows that you have dedication and the ability to stick to it. A degree will also prepare you for the professional situations you will likely encounter, especially in a job interview.

Also realize that a degree doesn't per say matter in a job interview. Bear with me on this. If all the people applying for the interview don't have a degree, and you have the best demo of them all, and if there aren't that many people applying for the position, then you're in.

Unfortunately, that's bizarro World, and this is the real World. I think we can both agree that game development is a much sought after career opportunity, and there are plenty of candidates with good qualifications. Some of them might even have better demos than you to compliment their qualification.

Now don't get me wrong, you can still get a game development job without a degree. It happens in a lot of industries. But you know what you'll be to your employer then? His, and no one else's. To put it bluntly, you will have nothing to bargain with in order to get a promotion or a raise (Because your employer knows that you need him more than he needs you), and don't be surprised when you're the least paid member on the development team.

You don't have the marks, and you don't have the money, I understand. You will to contend with getting a part time undergraduate degree while maintaining a full time job, which is what I'm doing. Try to get your marks up, and then look closely at the opportunities open to you, I'm sure you'll find something if you try hard enough.

But I'm not going to tell you that you -will- -100%- get a decent job without a degree. If I did, I would be fooling you.

Imagine you have a stack of 30 job applications on your desk.

Imagine your job is to cut the pile down to a stack of the five best applications.

Imagine 27 of the applications show a college degree, 3 of them show a high school diploma.

Imagine which ones will be the first ones in the trash.





The problem is not your own abilities, which may (or may not) be considerable.

The problem is not your demo, which may (or may not) be excellent.

The problem is that you are competing against all the other applicants. They WILL have a college education, and they may have awesome demos. They may have related work experience. Those are the first picks for a company.




For programmers, a college degree is nearly essential. Without it you will have a harder time getting a job. When you do find a job you will be paid significantly less. When you have a job and promotions come around, you will be occasionally overlooked. When you do get the promotion and raise, it will be less than the degree-earning peers. When you later move to another company, you will still have a harder time finding a job than your coworkers, and it will be at a lower pay, etc. Repeat for 30+ years.

Over the course of your adult life as a games programmer (assuming USA and such) your not having a degree will cheat yourself out of more than a million dollars over your lifetime career.

I do think having a degree will help you get your first few jobs, but after that, professional experience is a lot more valuable. I think after having several years of working on successful game titles, that the college degree is going to be less important. Lets take 2 example candidates:

Person A: Just a high school diploma but has worked on Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 for 5 years.

Person B: Has a 4 year degree but has worked on Poker Superstars, Airport Tycoon 3, and Beowulf for the past 6 years.

I don't know about you but I would take Person A in a heart beat. I know my example is a little bit extreme, but just want to get my point across that a degree does not equal a great programmer.

It also depend on where you apply to. If you apply to the big companies like EA, Blizzard, Epic, etc..., then unless you have a ton of professional experience and a few AAA game released, don't even bother applying without a degree. If you are applying for a job at a small studio, they might pay more attention to your portfolio then your degree (but of course a degree can never hurt).

From what I have seen, there are 2 different ways of getting into the gaming industry. You can try to get a job with a big studio right out of college (and for that you will need a college degree). Second, you can try to build a game as an indie and either start your own small studio or try to use the game you built to get a job at another small-mid sized studio. Personally, I am trying the second way and school is something that has just never worked for me.

Quote: Original post by 3dmodelerguy
I do think having a degree will help you get your first few jobs, but after that, professional experience is a lot more valuable. I think after having several years of working on successful game titles, that the college degree is going to be less important. Lets take 2 example candidates:

Person A: Just a high school diploma but has worked on Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 for 5 years.

Person B: Has a 4 year degree but has worked on Poker Superstars, Airport Tycoon 3, and Beowulf for the past 6 years.

I don't know about you but I would take Person A in a heart beat. I know my example is a little bit extreme, but just want to get my point across that a degree does not equal a great programmer.

It also depend on where you apply to. If you apply to the big companies like EA, Blizzard, Epic, etc..., then unless you have a ton of professional experience and a few AAA game released, don't even bother applying without a degree. If you are applying for a job at a small studio, they might pay more attention to your portfolio then your degree (but of course a degree can never hurt).

From what I have seen, there are 2 different ways of getting into the gaming industry. You can try to get a job with a big studio right out of college (and for that you will need a college degree). Second, you can try to build a game as an indie and either start your own small studio or try to use the game you built to get a job at another small-mid sized studio. Personally, I am trying the second way and school is something that has just never worked for me.

Going back to frob's post, Person A has most likely never touched anything important in either of those games. While he might have some "wow" factor he may not have any real skill. Now Person B hasn't worked on any AAA games but most likely has experience in all areas of game programming because of probably smaller staff sizes. Not only does he have a traditional CS background but quite a bit of well rounded experience. Person B is going to be the person to hire. Now if Person A can prove they actually have upper level experience or person B just has a degree and no experience then Person A might be a better choice.

Quote: Original post by frob
Imagine you have a stack of 30 job applications on your desk.

Imagine your job is to cut the pile down to a stack of the five best applications.

Imagine 27 of the applications show a college degree, 3 of them show a high school diploma.

Imagine which ones will be the first ones in the trash.





The problem is not your own abilities, which may (or may not) be considerable.

The problem is not your demo, which may (or may not) be excellent.

The problem is that you are competing against all the other applicants. They WILL have a college education, and they may have awesome demos. They may have related work experience. Those are the first picks for a company.




For programmers, a college degree is nearly essential. Without it you will have a harder time getting a job. When you do find a job you will be paid significantly less. When you have a job and promotions come around, you will be occasionally overlooked. When you do get the promotion and raise, it will be less than the degree-earning peers. When you later move to another company, you will still have a harder time finding a job than your coworkers, and it will be at a lower pay, etc. Repeat for 30+ years.

Over the course of your adult life as a games programmer (assuming USA and such) your not having a degree will cheat yourself out of more than a million dollars over your lifetime career.

Ditto.
Even if there weren't so many with college degrees in the stack studies have shown that those with degrees recieve preferential treatment and employers feel that they are entitled to a job over those without a degree.

Quote: Original post by jtagge75

Quote: Original post by 3dmodelerguy
I do think having a degree will help you get your first few jobs, but after that, professional experience is a lot more valuable. I think after having several years of working on successful game titles, that the college degree is going to be less important. Lets take 2 example candidates:

Person A: Just a high school diploma but has worked on Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 for 5 years.

Person B: Has a 4 year degree but has worked on Poker Superstars, Airport Tycoon 3, and Beowulf for the past 6 years.

I don't know about you but I would take Person A in a heart beat. I know my example is a little bit extreme, but just want to get my point across that a degree does not equal a great programmer.

It also depend on where you apply to. If you apply to the big companies like EA, Blizzard, Epic, etc..., then unless you have a ton of professional experience and a few AAA game released, don't even bother applying without a degree. If you are applying for a job at a small studio, they might pay more attention to your portfolio then your degree (but of course a degree can never hurt).

From what I have seen, there are 2 different ways of getting into the gaming industry. You can try to get a job with a big studio right out of college (and for that you will need a college degree). Second, you can try to build a game as an indie and either start your own small studio or try to use the game you built to get a job at another small-mid sized studio. Personally, I am trying the second way and school is something that has just never worked for me.

Going back to frob's post, Person A has most likely never touched anything important in either of those games. While he might have some "wow" factor he may not have any real skill. Now Person B hasn't worked on any AAA games but most likely has experience in all areas of game programming because of probably smaller staff sizes. Not only does he have a traditional CS background but quite a bit of well rounded experience. Person B is going to be the person to hire. Now if Person A can prove they actually have upper level experience or person B just has a degree and no experience then Person A might be a better choice.

OK then then is what Person A should have read like:

Person A: Just a high school diploma but has worked on the core game engines for Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 for 5 years.

The whole point I was trying to make is that a college degree does not mean the person is going to be a good game programmer, or a good programmer at all (I have know someone who has a 4 year degree in computer programming and his code is pretty bad) and that someone with just a high school diploma could be one of the best game programmers out there.

One thing a college degree does show is that you are able to commit and complete something long term which is important in the gaming industry however completing a game by yourself or with a team also shows the same thing.

Quote: Original post by 3dmodelerguy
OK then then is what Person A should have read like:

Person A: Just a high school diploma but has worked on the core game engines for Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 for 5 years.

The whole point I was trying to make is that a college degree does not mean the person is going to be a good game programmer, or a good programmer at all (I have know someone who has a 4 year degree in computer programming and his code is pretty bad) and that someone with just a high school diploma could be one of the best game programmers out there.

One thing a college degree does show is that you are able to commit and complete something long term which is important in the gaming industry however completing a game by yourself or with a team also shows the same thing.

That would certainly even things up between the two. But it would still need to come down to an interview/testing to see who was hired. Working on a AAA game doesn't automatically make you a better programmer. Which was the point I was trying to make. Though working on AAA game will probably give you access to technology other people don't which could be a plus in your favor.