EA recently had a contest at comic-con called "Sin to win". link, other link (work warning: cleavage) I'm just a tad bit late with this post as it's over now but basically: The advertisement shows a skull with two naked devil girls and the text "sin to win" tatooed above a womans cleavage. To win one had to take pictures ("acts of lust") with booth babes (any booth babes, not just EA employees) and send them to EA via internet. The grand prize was dinner with "two hot girls", "a chest full of booty" [rolleyes], and some other stuff. This is wrong on so many levels: First of all there's their assumption that anyone entering the contest would be a straight male. Then there's the overt sexualization and objectification of women. Then there's the fact that they call the picture taking an "act of lust" and tell people to "sin to win"; you just *know* they want people to push the limits (even if they do have disclaimers in the small text), and it should be obvious that this is encouraging inappropriate behavior (sexual harrasement) towards booth babes. And finally how they encourage this for any booth babes at the convention, not just EA employees. Thoughts?

Quote: Original post by Osha
This is wrong on so many levels: First of all there's their assumption that anyone entering the contest would be a straight male.

Yes, well this is comic-con. Is it so wrong to assume that the majority of those attending would be male? Even if that wasn't the case, what's the big deal? No one is making anyone participate.

Quote: Original post by Osha
Then there's the overt sexualization and objectification of women

They're booth babes. They're already being paid to be objectified. No one is forcing them to work the job they have.

Quote: Original post by Osha
Then there's the fact that they call the picture taking an "act of lust" and tell people to "sin to win"; you just *know* they want people to push the limits (even if they do have disclaimers in the small text), and it should be obvious that this is encouraging inappropriate behavior (sexual harrasement) towards booth babes.

Again, they're booth babes. I'm sure they're used to it by now.

Quote: Original post by Osha
And finally how they encourage this for any booth babes at the convention, not just EA employees.

I'm not sure how this is wrong at all. It would be more of a dick move for them to say that the pictures have to be of EA babes.

Let's not making something out of nothing. Maybe you need a thicker skin?

Another link

I don't see the outrage. Bad taste marketing is nothing new. Niche marketing is nothing new. If Carl's Jr can serve up an completely unbelievable advert of a hot bikini model eating a teriaki burger on the beach, why get outraged over cleavage in an advert? I can't help but see the outrage as an extension of religious beliefs. (How dare they encourage straight men to sin!!!). Now that Comic-Con is over, was any inappropriate behavior towards booth babes reported? If not, then this fuss is much ado about nothing.

I'm at work so I'll check the link later. But I don't really see particularily wrong with such a contest. When you take the words out of context "sin to win" can certainly suggest the promotion of unacceptable behavior but given that EA is not in the adult entertainment industry (that I know of) and they won't want anyone being arrested, I have to believe that participants following the rules of contest would be just engaging in a little fun. I'm also assuming that participants would be expected to get permission from a 'booth babe' to pose for photos.

That being said, it does strike me as a fairly crude contest targeted at horny young men and as such is degrading to men and perpetuates sentiments that we are all nothing but brutish knuckle draggers or that all gamers are nerd and outcasts that can't get dates and require the assistance of the corporations that feed our addictions.

But then, that's just my opinion. I'm no morality expert nor do I have a lot of desire to influence others to follow my own morals.

Oh wait a sec! I just totally caught myself in an act of unintentionally applying stereotypes to a broad range of people which I must correct.

In as much as anyone might expect the majority of the participants to be horny young males there is no reason not to expect a good quantity of entries by females (streight or not) attendending the convention to participate. Although I suspect their motivation might tend to be more towards having fun with the contest and winning the 'chest full of booty' (maybe the dinner too if it was some place good).

Quote: Original post by CrimsonSun
Yes, well this is comic-con. Is it so wrong to assume that the majority of those attending would be male? Even if that wasn't the case, what's the big deal? No one is making anyone participate.

Of course it's not wrong to assume that. It's sad, but it would be naive to assume otherwise.
(I'd be interested in the statistics for this actually). This does not mean there aren't some women there. I personally don't think things like this will help attract more.

Quote: Original post by CrimsonSun
They're booth babes. They're already being paid to be objectified. No one is forcing them to work the job they have.

It's true that they sign up to act as eye candy, but they still deserve a bit of respect.

Quote: Original post by CrimsonSun
I'm not sure how this is wrong at all. It would be more of a dick move for them to say that the pictures have to be of EA babes.

The problem is that there's the potential for hoardes of unwanted people trying to take sleazy pictures of them, or anyone who gets mistaken for a booth babe, with implicit permission from EA.

Quote: Original post by CrimsonSun
Let's not making something out of nothing. Maybe you need a thicker skin?

Man, if my skin wasn't ultra thick I would have stayed 10 billion miles away from gd.net with this post. [smile]

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Quote: Original post by janta
Another link

This is a pretty flimsy apology in my opinion. Basically just saying "you shouldn't get offended so easily"

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Quote: Original post by LessBread
I don't see the outrage. Bad taste marketing is nothing new. Niche marketing is nothing new. If Carl's Jr can serve up an completely unbelievable advert of a hot bikini model eating a teriaki burger on the beach, why get outraged over cleavage in an advert? I can't help but see the outrage as an extension of religious beliefs. (How dare they encourage straight men to sin!!!). Now that Comic-Con is over, was any inappropriate behavior towards booth babes reported? If not, then this fuss is much ado about nothing.

You might think this is silly of me but I do get offended by lots of burger commercials.
Not so much by a bit of cleavage, but by underlying sexist messages.

Being atheist, religious beliefs had nothing to do with it for me.
My main motivation is trying to make gamer culture a more welcoming place for women. One controversial post at a time.

Even if no booth babes were harrased because of this contest, it does happen.

Edit:

Quote: Original post by kseh
In as much as anyone might expect the majority of the participants to be horny young males there is no reason not to expect a good quantity of entries by females (streight or not) attendending the convention to participate. Although I suspect their motivation might tend to be more towards having fun with the contest and winning the 'chest full of booty' (maybe the dinner too if it was some place good).

Hmm... If I had gone to comic-con I would have been tempted to enter it for the prizes (they did look like nice prizes), and also to subvert it. :D

Quote: Original post by Osha
Thoughts?

English comprehension has clearly encountered a precipitous decline.

Is it out of bounds to consider that a game based on a work of allegory might itself be promoted through allegorical devices? Does any rational person truly believe that EA was inciting visitors to Comic-Con to sexually harass and assault female convention workers?

We live in the Age of Rage. Everything's a controversy, everything's a reason to get spitting mad. Take a break, pause and think? Pshaw! Criticize that which is amiss without the unnecessary faux-furor, perhaps with a gentle tut-tut or tsk tsk and a knowing shake of the head? Please. "I want to get angry, and I want to get angry now!"

In summary: meh.

Quote: Original post by Oluseyi

Quote: Original post by Osha
Thoughts?

English comprehension has clearly encountered a precipitous decline.

Is it out of bounds to consider that a game based on a work of allegory might itself be promoted through allegorical devices? Does any rational person truly believe that EA was inciting visitors to Comic-Con to sexually harass and assault female convention workers?

We live in the Age of Rage. Everything's a controversy, everything's a reason to get spitting mad. Take a break, pause and think? Pshaw! Criticize that which is amiss without the unnecessary faux-furor, perhaps with a gentle tut-tut or tsk tsk and a knowing shake of the head? Please. "I want to get angry, and I want to get angry now!"

In summary: meh.

I don't think they were doing so on purpose, but yes, I think EA was encouraging sexual harassment. Not everyone would read the contest rules closely. Some people might want to be edgy thinking it would give them a better chance at winning.

I'm not getting irrationally angry, my anger is very level headed, I have tumbled this around my brain a few times, I have discussed this with other people.
Some people have gotten angry, some people have been harrased at conventions, I think they have a right to get angry.

Quote: Original post by Osha
Even if no booth babes were harrassed because of this contest, it does happen.

Yes, it happens. Yes, it's wrong.

So?

You're reacting to the titles of the paragraphs in EA's poster, rather than their content:

Quote: Sin to Win

Commit Acts of Lust: Take photos with us or any booth babes...

I mean, really? It isn't clear that "acts of lust" is just marketing-speak trying to riff on the themes of the game's source material?

Quote: Original post by Osha
I don't think they were doing so on purpose, but yes, I think EA was encouraging sexual harassment.

Taking photos is sexual harassment?

Quote: Not everyone would read the contest rules closely. Some people might want to be edgy thinking it would give them a better chance at winning.

This is what led to disclaimer-ridden advertising. "Professional driver on a closed road. Do not attempt." Some people are idiots, and therefore we can no longer be witty or creative or funny because an idiot might take it literally. Thanks for that.

Quote: I'm not getting irrationally angry, my anger is very level headed, I have tumbled this around my brain a few times, I have discussed this with other people.
Some people have gotten angry, some people have been harrased at conventions, I think they have a right to get angry.

I think you're conflating issues. Some people harass female convention workers, and that is inappropriate and security should be on hand to restrain and eject such people. But this is a marketing flyer, and to extract two phrases while ignoring the context is to demand for a dumbing down of the conversation. What you should have done, in my opinion, is say, "I find this distasteful. Obviously I don't think EA is advocating sexual harassment, but I think that the material could be interpreted as such particularly by those who are already predisposed to such behavior - a problem that is endemic, but goes largely unnoticed and/or unreported." That would have been a starting point for a reasoned conversation about the real point: sexual harassment.

What you've done instead is begin with an overreaction to an incidental, which has set the people you ostensibly wish to engage in defensive mode, making it more difficult to raise your real issues: sexual harassment and objectification of real, live women at gamer-oriented events as a function of a boorish, male-oriented gamer culture.

You lost the opportunity with a poor opening gambit, having been distracted by an irrelevance. Three months from now nobody will remember this promotion, but the issues of harassment and objectification will still be with us and the discussion opportunity will have been lost.