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Original post by accountant I'm not the kind of player that can play for 6 months and then lose 1/3 of the effort that I've invested.

I'm not either, that's why I usually only used frigates that I knew were worth nothing more than a few hours of missioning or less than one hour of successful frigate use.

But sometimes there is the big battle where you know either your corp or the other one will die. There you arrive with your thoughed-up cap ship and the battalion of friends who cover it.

I was only refering to Planeshift using the death maze. All other comments are related to Runescape, which is a paid project and has been around since 2001. They have even managed to nearly stop all macroing. Take an example from them.

@ZeroShift

I think you're on to something, talking about death in terms of lost time. But the really bad part of losing time in a game, is that then you have to do the same thing over again - so the worst penalty is actually not losing your investment, but then having to invest effort just to get the point where you already were in the first place. That's mostly what makes people give up and quit, I think.

So, the penalty for death could not just be the amount of time you lose when you die, but also if you'll do the same thing over or have the chance to do something entirely different.

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Original post by Yvanhoe I'm not either, that's why I usually only used frigates that I knew were worth nothing more than a few hours of missioning or less than one hour of successful frigate use. But sometimes there is the big battle where you know either your corp or the other one will die. There you arrive with your thoughed-up cap ship and the battalion of friends who cover it.

So you have the choice to small risk & small reward, or big risk & big reward. Sounds like a deal.

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Original post by Fuji I was only refering to Planeshift using the death maze. All other comments are related to Runescape, which is a paid project and has been around since 2001. They have even managed to nearly stop all macroing. Take an example from them.

I did play Runescape for a while. The game is alright, but I guess I was discouraged by the graphics.

A MUD i used to play years ago had an interesting life system. you were "born" into the world with seven lives. When an npc killed you, you lost a life, had to get ressurected and depending on how this was done you had some temporary stat ... erm... problems... cant think of the word but your stats went down by a number for a while.

If you were PK'd you still died and had the potential stat problems, again depending on how you were ressurected. HOWEVER, if you were PK'd you did not lose a life.

Also, you could buy new lives but the cost of these rose depending on your level and how many times you died.

Just my two cents, but i liked this system.

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Original post by accountant @ZeroShift I think you're on to something, talking about death in terms of lost time. But the really bad part of losing time in a game, is that then you have to do the same thing over again - so the worst penalty is actually not losing your investment, but then having to invest effort just to get the point where you already were in the first place. That's mostly what makes people give up and quit, I think. So, the penalty for death could not just be the amount of time you lose when you die, but also if you'll do the same thing over or have the chance to do something entirely different.

Right now in MMO's time is truly the only thing people can lose because the worlds themselves are static and anything that is lost can be regained. What is needed is truly dynamic worlds where resources become depleted and new ones are found, hence new types of constructions can be created(equipment, buildings, clothes, party hats, etc.) and stuff that is destroyed cannot be recreated because the resource is no longer abundantly available. When players lose that +12 Sword of Burning Metallic Crystal, that sword cannot be recreated easily because the resource of Metallic Crystal has been all used up because some powerful clan wanted to make an entire clan hall with walls made out of the material. But since the game would allow for the destruction of of a structure it is possible in game efforts could be made to seize the hall and dismantle the wall for raw material. But also there's a risk when enchanting the material(remember the original sword was +12) that the material could dissipate or change into something else.

Basically what it comes down to is players have to be able to lose something truly rare or unique to feel loss, not something that can reacquired by easy grinding.

It's funny I should have just been discussing this with a friend yesterday.

Ignoring for the time being the element of money; I think it is fair to say that time is the only resource a player actually invests in a game.

This may be an irreconcilable difference between different styles of play. Consider a player who wishes that their invested time is never at risk (casual?) playing against a player who wants all of their own and others' invested time to be constantly at risk (hardcore?).

It seems impossible to design a game that can pit them against each other in such a way that both are going to enjoy the conflict and be happy with the outcome.

Of course, these are gross extremes, even the most casual MOGs have a small time-loss for a player's failure to make good decisions. Similarly; even the most hardcore MOGs preserve a portion of the fruits of the player's invested time.

Ultimately this reflects the gamut of games that exist, they run the gamut of more or less invested time lost to failure. I think that, thematic considerations aside (because I like spaceships more than ponies), players will be most attracted to a game that offers the risk/reward ratio with which they are most comfortable.

I would like an MMO where you died and you have a chance of becoming a Skeleton, Zombie, Vampire, Ghost, Warewolf, Angel, Demon, depending on the situation.

This would be my system

Any death: 1% chance of becoming a skeleton
Die fighting zombies, 5% chance of zombyfication
Die fighting vampires, 5% chance of becoming a vampire
Die at near end of quest, 5% ghost (unfinished business) until you complete the quest
Die fighting warewolves, 5% chance of becoming a warewolf
Die intercepting a fight but save a player, 5% chance of angel
Die attacking a player with a lower level, 5% chance of demon
Dying alot? you become a harbinger of death and when you kill an enemy player you can influence there post-death class.

Each death-class would have perks and downsides but would make for a very interesting second life. After you die as these incarnations you revert to your former self, the amount you loose is related to how successful you are in your second life.

Each death-class would give you access to areas without being attacked. A skeleton could enter a skeletal area and recruit skeleton AI to help and such things.

As a death-class you could acquire the Ring of Anti-Death which reverts you to your life-class and restores your abilities 90%. Take the ring off and you go back to death-class. Very effective.

If the above happened, i would welcome death with glee and anticipation.