There are a number of people working for companies like Spiderweb software or Matrix games which do nothing but make indie games. It's not an easy path to get started on, as you have to attract attention for a game which doesn't have the traditional attention-getter; fancy graphics.

However, even going for a niche within a niche; single player RPGs, you can make money.

As for Df's having tile graphics, there are a few such graphics sets available for it. I personally don't use one myself, but whatever.

What games lack these days are not pretty graphics, but content, challenges, original gameplay mechanisms, and good AI.

For an independent developer, it's much more interesting to focus on the non-graphics parts. High quality 3D work is something that just costs a lot of money.

Exactly my point, we have shiny packages nowadays but they are pretty dead, lifeless and empty. Games lack content these days, and that is a total bummer.

Thats what I bumped into trying some Indie games and noticing they are really making games with a totally different mind set, which was refreshing and makes for some unique concepts and a lot of fun, unique and deep gameplay.

But my question is they are Indie for a reason, and they dont sell like the big man does, but even if they don't is this still possible nowadays.
Is it possible to stand against the juggernauts with lower budget Indiegames, could you make a living out of it or will it always be the thing you do next to your job in your spare time?!

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Original post by onemanbandman I am just wondering if the mass market would buy a product that is retro but just as solid as any other AAA title, even if its gameplay is a bit abstract and broad instead of simplified?

Probably not, but as an indie you're not aiming for the mass market. You're aiming for a niche. The advantage of being an indie is that you only need thousands of sales to support you instead of hundreds of thousands.

Yeah I needed to rephrase that, thanks! So in a way that is the answer to my question and that answer is, yes?!

Ofcourse I know it all depends on your product, if sales do well but.
How is that market the Indie Market, cause in a way you are competing in a maybe even larger pool then you would as one of the juggernauts, am I somewhat correct by stating that? Against how many competitors would you be taking it up to, and how realistic do you all think having a piece of that pie would be?

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Original post by onemanbandman Ofcourse I know it all depends on your product, if sales do well but. How is that market the Indie Market, cause in a way you are competing in a maybe even larger pool then you would as one of the juggernauts, am I somewhat correct by stating that? Against how many competitors would you be taking it up to, and how realistic do you all think having a piece of that pie would be?

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking there, but I can sum up the dynamics of the indie market as I see. Bear in mind I'm just starting out into the indie world myself, setting up my business this year.

It's a mistake for an indie to try to go toe-to-toe against a conventional developer house. They're much better funded, which corresponds to more developer hours they can put in the game. Even if you're very skilled at something, there's only so much time you put in to making you game.

You have to choose where to spend your time and money wisely. You could spend it all trying to be like the big fish, but you'll almost certainly end up as a pale imitations - they'll have the better product. Instead, it's better to find something that the big houses aren't doing, and cater to that market.

Conventional publisher funded houses aim for a large market segment by necessity. Their game needs to support a large developer team, publishers, marketers, distributors, conventional sale channels and so on. A typical game needs 100,000s of sales to be viable. Consequenty, they have play it safe and aim for a fairly broad group. That leaves an opportunity for you as an indie. There's always going to be groups that are too small to support a publisher funded game, but large enough to support you.

Of course, the tricky part is identifying one of these groups that you're able to cater for, making a game tailor made for them within your time and money budget, then getting enough of them to know about your game and interested enough to buy it. I'm afraid I'm no expert at that - that's what I'm currently hazarding guesses about myself [wink].

BTW if you're going the indie route, make sure you get a copy of The Indie Game Development Survival Guide by David Michael. It's got all the basics in there, so there's no reason not to have a copy.

Or you can just choose to screw marketing and just do a great game, if you've got enough of a vision.

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Original post by loufoque Or you can just choose to screw marketing and just do a great game, if you've got enough of a vision.

If that's your one and only goal, then sure, completely ignore marketing and focus on making a great game. Just don't be surprised if it doesn't satisfy any other goals, like paying the bills or even having people know your game exists.

If you truly have a vision as to how to make it a great game, people will simply enjoy it.
Games are meant to be fun. Too much targeting and marketing makes all of that artificial sometimes.

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Original post by loufoque If you truly have a vision as to how to make it a great game, people will simply enjoy it. Games are meant to be fun. Too much targeting and marketing makes all of that artificial sometimes.

There's a huge difference between "too much marketing" and "no marketing". And personally I think if your targeting and marketing actually harms your game, then you're doing it wrong. [smile].

If you really only just care about making the best game you can, then it's perfectly fine to just go ahead and make that game you want to make. However I wouldn't start thinking of it anything more than a hobby. As soon as you start having other objectives, like using your games as leverage into joining a developer house, or going into business for yourself, then it's no longer a hobby. You would be foolish not to do a bit of planning ahead for how you'll achieve your other goals. As well as make a great game of course - all objectives have that as a prerequisite!

If it's the case of making an indie game, as I and (I think) the OP is interested in, then you've got to start making trade-offs. You've got huge limitations upon you when it comes to creating content. You can't just say "I'm going to make a game just like (insert massively funded big name title in here), only twice as big and shiny". It will take the better part of a lifetime to complete, at which time four sequels have been releaed that are eight times better than your game.

So you have to be shrewd, and figure out exactly where you should spend that precious time. That doesn't mean you don't make a great game, it means you make a special type of great game - one that's within your abilities to make and isn't completely eclipsed by an even greater game out there. That's the market targeting you need to do.