INFO: The thread-start is going to be a long one with much detail. Due to this, I have split the main part from background information into two different posts. Please be aware that there will be quite a lot of paragraphs to get through. Hi. As the title of the thread describes, this thread is thread is about one of the greatest, but never properly done game and story genre: Steampunk. Now, before I put my Rant-Hat on (I'm not actually going to rant, as there's no point, but some of what say may be taken as ranting), I like the people who are not already aware of or are not sure what Steampunk is, to look at this summary: ------------------------------------- Steampunk is the Game or Story genre of universes or worlds where technology is an overwhelming force within them. The technology in question generally resembles that of- actually, let me give you an easier (and hopefully not too confusing; nor by the by the way I'm I trying to be patronising) example to follow. Let's say, for the sake of this example, that we have three ages of history. We've got Medieval Age, Renaissance Age and Enlightenment Age. Right, so far so good. At our current moment in time, we have technologies such as computers, combine harvesters, submarines, aeroplanes, gas cookers, electric lights etc... For the example, we'll call the age the Current Age. The Enlightenment Age had technologies such as Navy Warships, early industrial factories, very early locomotive transport, more advanced siege cannons and field artillery. In a Steampunk world, the technologies of the Current Age would be available in the Enlightenment Age, Enlightenment Age in the Renaissance Age and so on and so forth. However, in a Steampunk world or universe, if all you had was future technologies in the past, all you would have is the look of our world but earlier in history. That's why with Steampunk universes and worlds - as well as the technologies, peoples and creatures - the aesthetic and, normally, functional features of cities, towns, mechanisms (robots, computers, guns, utilities etc...) and vehicles work by and with gears, clockworks, raw electricity, gas and most importantly - pertaining the name - steam. ------------------------------------- Right, onto the main part. (I did state and warn that it was going to be a long post, so don't flex or frustrate over it, please; moderators, I did this so that members can choose whether to spend their time reading flicking through points they like and primarily so that I don't do multiple post over and over again for the same part of the thread). ------------------------------------- INFO: This thread has not been created for the purpose of arguing over the "overarching genre" (to coin a phrase if you will) of Theme-punk. This is not a debate on whether Steampunk, Cyberpunk, or Modpunk (Simply, alternative Modern-Day. Freedom Fighters is an example as well as Devastation) is better. It is for the discussion of everything Steampunk encapsulates and is associated with.INFO: A second post follows this one. This is to even things out between reads. Apologies for any inconvenience.

INFO: This article is a personal opinion of mine about the genre of Steampunk. Thanks for Tom's input on that particular bit.

Now, many gamers, both as part of the professional games world and as everyday or pros, will have undoubtedly seen, heard of, or even played Steampunk-based games. A lot of those gamers will have most likely not had a second thought about the representation of the Steampunk genre or universe in front of them. They probably didn't really care, or could've been because they were too "into" it, captivated by it, or even addicted to it (The recent games of Steampunk origin, although pretty much only a few, e.g. Thief, Rise of Legends, can be pretty addictive- first-hand experience!).

That's not what, to take a phrase, "Grinds my Gears" or "Takes the last slice of pie"; rather it is why the genre has become so...so disillusioned, disenchanting and... "diluted". You see, if you pay attention to some of the Steampunk (in the case of games rather than movies or novels) pieces, it becomes apparent that story genres of High and Low Fantasy (World or Warcraft, Elder Scrolls, The Witcher- to some extent, Arcanum, Neverwinter Nights) become intertwined with the technological features of Steampunk, of which in truth, the fantasy genres have nothing to do with each with it. Magic with Science, to give a common instance- I don't think so somehow!

Steampunk is, in the truest sense (and especially to me), the world or universe setting in which technology truely is the overarching premise and content of the world. In a Steampunk world that is true to ideals of mechanical, robotic but still human intact, you should completely take away the whole fantasy element of magic, enchanted weapons and armour and objects, "pixieland" forests with funny little creatures and so on and so forth. A world or universe based on Steampunk should take on the ideas, concepts and functions of a heavily industrialized, mechanical and technologically advanced society/civilisation (with the norm being Humans). Nature should be in a minority in a Steampunk world, with little or nothing overly present that is of fauna (apart from private gardens and greenhouses), trees and bushes (apart from conservation grounds), lakes (apart from city-sited, waste dumping or overt ocean-led ones) and the like. Metal, clockwork, gears, electricity and the like, should be in the majority.

Of course, there are gamers, designers and writers who may and probably would be lukewarm if not completely against such an extreme setting or angle of the genre. That is, of course, absolutely fine and dandy. You can interweave fantasy of both categories (High and Low) with that of Steampunk and still walk away with a perfectly good setting. Except for the fact that you will have taken away the essence, soul and real feel of the whole genre by doing so. Mix magic with robots (the Thief series did), mysterious alien races (Rise of Legends, which supposedly did it well) superficial battles between nature and technology (Sliverfall, which wasn’t received with open arms). You can do this all you want, no-one's gonna get hurt or crushed. All you're doing is deviating from the true world of Steampunk (at least for me it is), what's the harm in that?

All in all, pretty much, the genre of Steampunk is going to be driven down many roads, arrive at new places, as well as adjust itself as it goes along the path of discovery. We are, without a doubt in the world, going to be seeing some amazing, crazy, zany and profoundly interesting versions of the genre in years and months to come. There'll be many a bump along the road (as there have been) and designs and implementation that all of us can agree cannot be placed in the Steampunk genre. Magic, nature, and spirits will find their way in- no problems with that (although I believe chemistry would make an excellent alternative). Truly, I don't have an idea of where it's going to end up in the foreseeable future. But until then, Steampunk (at least to me) will undoubtedly be known as the Forgotten Genre.

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P.S. I know it turned into an article, but I got into it quite a lot.

TO MODS & ADMINS: This is a serious article. I'm not starting a forum war. I've already stated that earlier. It might have the occasional, potentially perceived ranting, but isn't that what articles like this are all about?

[Edited by - Dex Jackson on April 4, 2009 1:35:18 PM]

You're stating everything you say as fact, when in reality this is all your opinion. Who are you to define precisely what steampunk is, and that it has "never been done properly?" A genre is many things to many people. What sets steampunk apart is its Victorian influence and arbitrarily steam-powered machinery — hence the name, which itself was established in the 80's, long after the genre had become popular. However extensive your definition and expectations of a genre may be, they are yours alone.

On the other hand, that's rather the problem with attempting to label something: few things fall into nice, neat categories. What you've shared is your expectations of the genre, which itself one might find interesting. I only wish you'd stated it as opinion from the start. It would have saved you a lot of time writing disclaimers. When I see a disclaimer on a post, I know something is inherently wrong. If you don't want to argue your point, don't start a discussion. Mods probably aren't going to ban you for sharing your opinion.

Your writing is excellent. A better way to share your vision would be to convert it into something tangible, like a book or game, or even a video.

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Your writing is excellent.

Its only my opinion obviously but I would disagree. Specifically I found your writing particularly hard to follow because of your apparent overuse of commas.

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Original post by grekster Quote: Your writing is excellent. Its only my opinion obviously but I would disagree. Specifically I found your writing particularly hard to follow because of your apparent overuse of commas.

It's not that he overuses commas so much as he overuses clauses and phrases that require commas, such as "without a doubt in the world". It's not incorrect, but bad practice to make extensive use of filler like that.

I think the old Amiga game Chaos Engine fits your view of the SteamPunk genre quite well. Just thought I'd throw that in there :)

No, the punctuation is properly placed in a non-American style. What you should say is this person is wordy because he use too much words to describe. The usage of too much words shows this person has not reached College Level writing, and that is it. It is better to refrain from commenting on other people's writing.

In my opinion, Steampunk is the overexaggeration of steam powered technology.
In my opinion, Cyberpunk is the overexaggeration of network [internet] technology. Specifically, both are lable in such similar ways with "punk" as the root word.

If you look at some of the movies that try to depict the future from the times of the 80's or even earlier, then you will see that they are totally wrong because our technology evolves faster then their prediction. The thing to say is that these genre group of -punk are always consider out-of-date in comparision to modern technology quickly. They are harder for players to have connection because players are influenced by modern technology more, but the few players whom can make the connection. These players are able to understand history at a deeper meaning. The point is the entire group -punk can be said to be a collection of one supergenre that people divide them for the reason of time frame.

The point is, not many people have the connection to the timeline of lacking technology [not literally, but in the sense that there are better modern technology making the old ones are obsolete]. It is imposible to make a game without only it stereotype unless you can gather enough historian to help you depict the time frame properly. I find that your topic is more like history homework.

I will give you a quote from some one:
"The only difference between a genius and an idiot is that one has a limit and the other does not."
--Albert Einstein

This quote still makes me think.

The point is, you are trying to define something, and by trying to define something, you have started the argument of definition.

Offtopic: Anything someone say is a type of argument, just in different forms. Any new idea is an argument, and that is essentially what a discussion is. Flaming is not argument. Flaming is the attacking of other members of the community. My definitions can lead to argument, but it will not lead to flaming. Note that everything someone writes down is an opinion, and that even facts are just opinion, but they are classified differently because we have not proven that they are wrong. If someone try to flame me, then I will have to give a longer philosophical lecture [of my opinion] then this one.

I was going to write "comparatively excellent," but I didn't want to sound like more of a jerk than I already did.

Thinking of "punk" as describing an over-exaggeration of a theme makes since to me. I'm grateful you pointed that out, as I was never quite sure where the "-punk" fit into the cyber or steam.

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Thinking of "punk" as describing an over-exaggeration of a theme makes since to me. I'm grateful you pointed that out, as I was never quite sure where the "-punk" fit into the cyber or steam.

I am no doctor of litterature, but my understanding was that the word "cyberpunk" was used to describe the life of the lower, street-level social class (-punk) in a heavily computerized world (cyber-).

Later, "steampunk" was used to draw the parallel with cyberpunk in that a technology was indeed exagerated, but in steampunk, the original street-level sense of the -punk suffix was lost. (in the few I read, at least) And the new meaning arose.

I guess that if heroic fantasy appeared today it would be called "steelpunk" or something...

EDIT : Somehow related in a oh-look-it-s-shiny way : http://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/

Steampunk is sorta like retro-futurism in the past. Its the application of old concepts and mechanics on a monolithic scale, capturing both the style of the previous era and the abilities of the current. The two most commonly used elements are metal gear-sets and steam-related power sources or accents. The main points at which the laws of physics are broken are when things are excessively large or excessively small; something that both interests the fans and drives away the critics.

Isn't that an easier way to define it? The rest is pretty much up to the writer. Power sources, environments, competing forms of technology/magic, and so forth are meant to stay pretty flexible. Otherwise, how long will it be until the steampunk that you have defined will end up in your previous thread?