I got shot down for a tools programmer game job. Basically, the guy was really nice, and I took their pre-screening programming test. He came down to say, "If we have a gameplay or engine position, then you should apply to that because not many people do good on our test. We have some really strong candidates for tools right now and it's hard for you to compete." So, I'm just slightly confused as to what a tools programmer does that is WAY different than anything else. I mean if you can write a full game by yourself, and write exporters in maya for animations and levels, then how can you not be a good candidate for tools. So again, what is a typical tools programmer position then and why is it so different?

You might be able to write the back end code, but have no idea how to design a usable GUI?
Maybe they are doing most of their toolwork in C# and the others just had more C# experience (language was an example)?
Perhaps they had more experience with GUI libraries like Qt than yourself?

Just some ideas.

Well they said they use wxWidgets. I've used windows before doing all the windows UI stuff. But in the end whatever you do, you have some buttons and things to click, that run some code.

I just have never heard from someone that actually works on tools, because to me wether your UI is done in wxWidgets or C#, you still need to know how to write code to export data and compress files and all this other 3d math.

Again, it's the fact of saying X person from the gameplay/engine department couldn't do tools. That's what I don't understand.

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Well they said they use wxWidgets. I've used windows before doing all the windows UI stuff. But in the end whatever you do, you have some buttons and things to click, that run some code

Heh. No. Tools aren't just UI for one thing, and anyways shoving UI together via windowing API is a code-monkey task. Building good UI and being able to iterate on it fast and effectively is not the same as being able to use wxWidgets.

Tools programming is fundamentally different from the type of programming that goes into the game itself -- you're not making a game, so not all of the game-related skills apply and furthermore additional skills do apply that are often not as heavily stressed or necessary when working on the game code itself. You're making "regular" applications, and your clients are right there in the building with you. You need to work with them, understand their workflow, optimize it, and respond to wildly varying changes in direction quickly.

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Again, it's the fact of saying X person from the gameplay/engine department couldn't do tools. That's what I don't understand.

It's just about different skillsets and focus; for the same reason, a really amazing graphics programmer might not make so great an audio programmer.

Taking just one of a myriad of examples: in tools, there is typically more of a focus on correctness over performance. A broken tool can stall many teams; a tool that produces bad data is extremely dangerous and detrimental to a project. There is typically more communication and interpersonal team skills required, because you have to interact across teams -- which means talking to artists and designers a lot more than, say, engine guys would -- which requires the ability to bridge the gap between the way all those various disciplines think about and approach problems.

Quote: Original post by dpadam450
So, I'm just slightly confused as to what a tools programmer does that is WAY different than anything else.

Usability.

A tools programmer doesn't generally get a design team to handle usability for him (a lot of tools companies still don't bother to hire usability experts) so it's important that he knows his way around good UI design. And no, it's not just a matter of buttons that run code. That would be bad UI design, and probably why you ran into competition.

UI is only a small subset of the tools.

Maya / 3D studio scripts and plugins, mesh converters, anim converters, lighting tools, texture tools, managing various repositories (networking, maintenance, ect...), level designer tools, automated builds, ...

Others have covered some of the differences that you mentioned. But you should be encouraged by the interviewer's statements.


Consider that the economy is down right now.

Consider that the biggies have laid off several thousand experienced game developers over the past few months.

Consider that the biggies have announced cancellations to many major projects and brought games from third-party back to in-house.



Now consider that you actually got an interview.

And he told you you would be a good fit for several different jobs.

And he told you that you compete well against some of the people with industry experience. (But you are not the best choice compared with all experienced applicants.)

And finally (this is important) he told you to apply again for a different job when it comes up.



Keep your hopes up. There is a lot of competition for jobs right now. As the economy and job market improve, you will likely be able to land the ideal job you are searching for.

Yea, I agree with that frob. I took his advice, I just didn't really know what it meant.

Quote: Original post by dpadam450
Yea, I agree with that frob. I took his advice, I just didn't really know what it meant.

I think that in his mind, you weren't as qualified as the other applicants. Without asking him, you'll never know 100% what his exact reasoning was.

Definitely agree with what frob said.