This is somewhat inspired by the universe thread. It got me thinking about consciousness again, which is fun to think about. I only read the first 2 pages, hopefully this has not been discussed already. I have no idea how self awareness arises. But assuming there is no metaphysical basis to it, it is some sort of physical interaction. If you look at any part of the human body, it essentially breaks down into basic physical forces. How does consciousness arise from that? So could something like the planet be alive? Break it down far enough and it is also lots of complex physical interactions. Does self awareness arise from that? It is made of many organic components as well. It is dynamic and changing in complex ways geologically and electrically. Where could consciousness arise? What if the physical interactions that get complicated enough? Would it scale down? Could a human for example, be actually conscious through many size scales? Like could your liver be aware of its own existence, independantly? I wish there was a test of some sort. I do not see why there couldnt be. I do not think consciousness is an unsolvable or unquantifiable problem as long it somehow is based on physical systems.

I myself believe self-awareness is present in most multi-cellular organisms, to some extent. Think: Well, it will suck if I die. I would classify that as a super-basic self-awareness. It may be possible the earth holds this, but I highly doubt it. Scratch that, I can almost guarantee it. The earth, as far as we can tell, is basically a huge pool of SUPER hot liquid elements, followed by hot liquid stuff, followed by a crust. I myself do not see how a consciousness could emerge from a collection of elements forming 3 layers, but I may be wrong. Do you picture cells as self-aware and conscious? Some may say yes, but I would say no. At that level, it is simply a collection of molecular processes orchestrated by protein production, in my opinion. (As it is at any level) My view: Consciousness does not emerge until each of these tiny cells begin pooling together, and some sort of response to the environment, besides basic molecular processes such as diffusion, are shown. Basically, chemical responses to stimuli that spread throughout multiple cells. (Hormones, chemical messengers, bio-electric pulses. Brain stuff.) Just my $0.02 worth.

Not another one please! [smile]

My short answer: no.

My slightly longer answer: I guess it depends on how you define the word "alive", as a single conscious entity aware of itself, the Earth is not any more alive than Mars is.

As for a liver gaining self awareness... well, I think it would stop being a liver and become a brain.

The physical ball of metal and rock we live on is not conscious. Problem solved!

As what do you define Earth?

(whoah, I think that was grammatically correct...)

Quote: Original post by Kwizatz
My slightly longer answer: I guess it depends on how you define the word "alive", as a single conscious entity aware of itself, the Earth is not any more alive than Mars is.

Does consciousness require life?

We will need to scientifically test this! Show the Earth its image in a mirror and see how it reacts. Although for the test to be fair, we'll need a mirror at least the size of the planet.

(Future lab notes: "When put in close proximity to the planet-size mirror, subject Earth showed increased seismic activity, volcanic activity, tidal waves and other indicators of excitement. This lends weight to our hypothesis that the subject is self-aware.")

Consider an external observer which is relatively massive compared to the Earth (enough so that any humans or other animals would be considered insignificant).

Let us imagine also that some threat (like an asteroid) moved towards the Earth on collision course. If we were able to stop it (insert generic movie plot as to how that might work) the external observer might concluded that the Earth perceived the thread, perceived the danger it posed and reacted to the event.

This does not imply self-awareness, because one does not need to be self-aware to act on external inputs - simple organisms and programs do the same and I doubt anyone considers them to be self-aware.

I believe one test for self-awareness in animals (according to the ever accurate Wikipedia) is the Mirror Test.

Quote:
I myself believe self-awareness is present in most multi-cellular organisms, to some extent.

I don't believe so. Considering your example below, what I would say is that most multi-cellular organisms have evolved to act as though they are self-aware with regards to threats to life. This is because those that do react to such threats are far more likely to survive and propagate their genes.

Quote:
Think: Well, it will suck if I die. I would classify that as a super-basic self-awareness.

I think that is a classic case of begging the question [smile]

Quote: Original post by Oberon_Command
Does consciousness require life?

Good question, I would think yes, because in order to have consciousness you require perception and feelings, which can (as far as we know) be only processed by a brain (or equivalent).

But the opposite of the question doesn't ring true, that is, life does not require consciousness, as is the case of plants, fungus, etc. On that note, here is an interesting entry I found on the skeptic's dictionary [smile].

Edit: Ok, I see where you might be getting here, self aware AI, I guess we come back to the "depends how you define alive" dilemma [smile].

I think the flaw in the title question is that it presumes that we are not part of the planet. Last I checked we are and we are conscious. Therefore the answer is yes, the Earth is conscious. It is conscious through us.

The planet is a multiple organism organism.