Warning: Really deep stuff, if you get lightheaded stop reading. ;) Sometimes in a moment of deep thought, I wonder why we are in a state of existence as opposed to non-existence. What I mean by that is why does our universe exist? Does it exist for a reason? What boggles my mind even more is how extremely well thought out it is. The natural laws that govern how this universe works are perfectly calibrated. How can it be that our universe has organized itself so neatly all by itself into galaxies, suns and planets? What are the chances of this happening randomly? Who fine tuned the natural laws to make this happen? Why did it organize itself this way? In my mind, there must have been some form of intelligence behind this. I am not following any form of religion. (That's all I'll say about that, I don't want this thread turning nasty). I believe the universe is intelligently designed, but I don't call that entity God, but rather the Creator. In my mind, the Creator is the intelligence who thought out how the universe should assemble itself naturally as a product of the natural laws. I believe that the Creator is a single entity, and that we are all little amnesiac pieces of that Creator - experiencing itself subjectively. So why does the universe exist? My own opinion is that it does so because the Creator wants to gain new experiences. It splits itself into little pieces, experiences itself subjectively, and then re-merges itself and analyzes all the new experiences it has created for itself. It then uses those experiences to improve the next universe it creates. I'm going to make an interesting statement and say that evolution is a product of intelligent design. The universe is intelligently programmed to allow evolution to manifest lifeforms naturally. That's the gist of it anyway. According to some mystical mysterious teachings I've read, evolution is run by a program which works on DNA in order to manifest lifeforms. This evolutionary program can be adjusted with templates and restraints, these templates and restraints can be modified on a per-planet basis. But other than that, nature takes care of the rest itself. Some hundred thousands of years ago, some administrator in our solar system said, "Time for Earth to advance to the next stage. Activate the human evolutionary program!"

So, this creator, is it less or more complex and well thought out than the complexity of the universe?

Complexity starts somewhere. In the absence of evidence of other forms of complexity preceeding it, one might aswell accept it as-is, no?

This line of thinking is often used as a way of saying "see, there must be a god!" the problem is it is flawed, and indeed any view of a 'creator' is flawed because it assumes that this is the one and only universe and that there hasn't been anything before it or after it.

The fact that we exist IS because the universe happens to have balenced itself out just right and because of that we are here to question it. The problem is, we don't know how many times the universe DIDNT get it right.

Maybe there have been multitudes of 'universes' before this one, each one different in some manner and the resulting end of said universe causes the beginning of the next and so on.

I guess it's like going to watch someone do a dangerous stunt; if you only ever see the stunt then as far as you are concerned it was amazing that he managed to pull it off so well. Of course what you don't see is the number of times he failed, broke bones and got banged up in the process.

I don't want to reply in a depressing manner; but I need to be realistic. I don't think you have experienced the feeling called 'existentialism'.
Even if there was intelligent design ( And I believe there is none as I see universe and mind as a whole) ; what does it mean for me , existentially, to have this knowledge?
I will cease to exist sooner or later, and there will be no real advantage to this knowledge. Of course it is nice to fantasize about it; but at the same time it is useless.
About the 'laws' that seem so nicely tuned; that is from the human perception. It is like looking at a cloud and you recognize a kitten in this shape; it is just like someone has lovingly shaped the cloud in the form of a cat, just for you.
It is, of course, just randomness.
:D

Quote: I believe the universe is intelligently designed, but I don't call that entity God, but rather the Creator.

I'm pretty sure this is what people mean by "God" - the designer and creator of the universe. Why are you reluctant to use the word?

I think he does not want this to be a religious debate. As soon as the word 'God' is mentioned it tends to turn into just that.

Quote: Original post by Straudos

Quote: I believe the universe is intelligently designed, but I don't call that entity God, but rather the Creator.

I'm pretty sure this is what people mean by "God" - the designer and creator of the universe. Why are you reluctant to use the word?

To assert that the universe is created is one thing; kindof pointless, but anyway. The word 'god' is however quite a bit broader than just 'creator'.

To assert that this creator would bother to spawn stone tablets, prophets or have other properties commonly associated with 'god', are entirely orthogonal assertions.

I've not much to say on this myself, but : Anthropic Principle

We are all just a records...

Quote:
Sleep? Wait. If I am dreaming of someone and I ask him a question, then, until I do not answer, I do not know the answer.
But people do not have an exists outside of my brain, it is only temporarily separate his part. Everyone divides almost every day,
or rather nightly, giving fleeting arising in the brain pseudoindividual life. Creatures fictitious or actually exists. Is not
the dream we often the dead people? Are not we talk with them? Dead ...Is Terminus? ..
Back there? Back - and not ask? This is a physical phenomenon, more complex than conventional record: automatic - not a device
for recording sounds. It's an appeared record, which has a certain independence, ability to change.This record, which - oddly enough it
sounds - it is possible ask questions and find out ... everything! Learn about the fate of Simon, Nolan, Loss and this is unclear,
frightened silence commander ...Can you imagine any other explanation? Perhaps not.
Pirks was sure of this and still have not moved from their seats, as if waiting for something. In the end, nothing but the movement
of currents within the iron box. No life, no, there are no people dying in darkness of broken ship. Probably none!
To sound issues, under a glass sight of Terminus? But they will not be in order to tell their story, they begin to shout his request
oxygen, pray for deliverance! What answer? That they do not there? That they are "pceudoindividuals", isolated islands in electronic
brain, their delusion? That their fear - only the fear of imitation,and their agony, repeated every night, there is no more then plate
out of tune? He could not forget the issue due to the rapid explosion of strokes - the cry that they are full of amazement, and suddenly
woken up hope, called it - this endless, persistent, hurriedly entreaty: "Reply, Who said?Reply!" He still felt in the the finger
tips of despair and fury of the blows.
They do not exist? And who is it called, who prayed for help? And what will change if the experts say those cries for nothing except for
the circulation of charges and fluctuations excited resonance plates? Pirks sat at the table. Nominated account. Fiercely attached
to rustle of paper, get the one searched, put in front of you and carefully smooth that it flew from not breathing. One of another,
it became hard to fill in the section:
Model: AST-PM-105/0044
Type: Universal, Repair robot
Title: Terminus
Type of damage: The dissolution of the functions
Conclusions:
Pirks thought. He approached a pen to paper and attach again. He thinking about the innocence of machines, which gave people the
ability to thinking, and thus made them complicit in their extravagance. How that the legend of the Golem, the machine revolt and
insurgency against the rights - a lie, invented to make people who are responsible for all to this responsibility with a reset.
Conclusions: To send for scrap.

(c)Stanislav Lem ,"Terminus"

[Edited by - Krokhin on March 9, 2009 9:10:46 AM]

The creator argument has pretty much same basis as idea that 'rock falls because it wants to fall'. It postulates something of very high complexity as explanation, without awareness of complexity.

Physics may seem complex, but as far as we know it just takes one or two a4 pages to describe, on most fundamental level (all the "laws" like ohm's law which fill entire textbooks are just practically useful approximations).
Whereas description of an intelligent being takes terabytes. (Human's DNA does not describe intelligence - human growing up in total sensory deprivation wont be intelligent.)

edit: Krokhin: whose translation is that?