Suppose it works like a barter system; you go to the bar on the space station, and you can sit down with a party or take a table and wait to be approached.

The game pops up the negotiation UI, each side has two bins, offers and requests, and there is a big bin in the middle which represents the deal that is negotiated (the pot).

You can offer services; Transportation, Search&Destroy, Escort, Procurement, Espionage (etc).

You can request payment, or something specific to whom you are dealing with (military tech, industry commodities at low prices, access to contraband, etc).

A deal requires that both parties have offers and requests that are jointly satisfied. So you put forward an offer and a request, and they will make a counter-offer. You can choose to add or remove or balk, and depending on your skills they may do the same (if you make too big a deal they may not believe you can fulfill it). If you balk, and they really want you, it may net you a bigger payout.

All the while, there is a 'negotiation sense' UI element; this represents the health of the negotiations in your character's estimation (sharper negotiation skills will make it more accurate). If things are going too smoothly, you may think you're getting shafted, if things are going badly, you know not to balk/demand more if you actually want the deal.

This requires some idea of relationship between the player and the other. Also reputation would play well with it.

If they approach you, or if you already have a relationship with them, they may make the first move, allowing you more latitude in early negotiations.

Yeah, but what would that system offer players who don't want to schmooze every cent out of Jabba the Hutt?
There needs to be a default, a 50:50 balance, right from the start.

And lets not forget that Fallout and Oblivion both had skills that allowed you to get more out of transactions by smooth-talking your way through a deal and that didn't require any complicated drag and drop boxes either.
It was all just based on your Speechcraft and Charisma.

I think the very first MechWarrior game did something similar to this. I can't remember if it had bartering for contracts, but I do vaguely remember a wide variety of contract types being offered to you. However I only saw the game on a friend's computer, never owned the game myself, so my memory could be hazy.

I don't think it'd be a pain to negotiate a contract every time if the drag-and-drop interface is well designed. I'd like to see a well thought out contract system in a game. The main thing I'd avoid is the feeling I get in all diplomacy in Civ style games where the AI will only accept lopsided deals (unless they're completely against the ropes, but sometimes not even then). Just once I'd love to see an AI negotiate a fair contract with the presumptin of increasing good will between both parties. Y'know, kind of like how you're meant to in real-life [wink].

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Original post by Cpt Mothballs And lets not forget that Fallout and Oblivion both had skills that allowed you to get more out of transactions by smooth-talking your way through a deal and that didn't require any complicated drag and drop boxes either.

Seems totally orthogonal to me. The goal (as I understand it, maybe Wavinator will clarify) is for the player to be able to pick and choose the components of a mission ahead of time and to customize his/her rewards. Has nothing to do with 'pulling one over' the AI.

The added negotiation mechanic is more about giving it some depth.

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Original post by Symphonic Suppose it works like a barter system; you go to the bar on the space station, and you can sit down with a party or take a table and wait to be approached.

Wow, this is an idea I really like. I was (rather myopically) thinking of it as a kind of email / contact system where you go to the patron's station and go through this.

But what I like about this extension is that it feels much more wide open and with lots of potential. In theory just about anyone can approach you with whatever resources, great or small. So you could get anything from the megacorp with a complex, layered mission or a sister looking for her shanghai'd brother. Great for sheer variety!

The game pops up the negotiation UI, each side has two bins, offers and requests, and there is a big bin in the middle which represents the deal that is negotiated (the pot).

I thought of something similar for trade, but I don't know why I never applied it in the way you suggest. It's great!

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All the while, there is a 'negotiation sense' UI element; this represents the health of the negotiations in your character's estimation (sharper negotiation skills will make it more accurate). If things are going too smoothly, you may think you're getting shafted, if things are going badly, you know not to balk/demand more if you actually want the deal.

I like the UI element. It could actually be a kind of color wheel which shades probable categories like "Stress", "Hesitancy", "Anger", "Lying" etc.

You could have tools and skills that enhance this, like a "voice stress analyzer" or a "street smarts" skill.

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This requires some idea of relationship between the player and the other. Also reputation would play well with it. If they approach you, or if you already have a relationship with them, they may make the first move, allowing you more latitude in early negotiations.

Yes, and you might be able to tell how badly they want something based on what they offer up front and how quickly/deeply they capitulate.

Here's an even better twist: What if the patrons have known (or even discoverable) reputations? If a trader that's known for being stingy suddenly offers you the world to transport a mysterious cargo container, shouldn't you get nervous?

What would be even more cool is if you could ask around about the mission in question or somehow check up on whether or not it's legit. This would obviously be for more shady / circumspect cargoes, but I'd like it if it wasn't rigidly scripted, but rather built into how missions and patrons work.

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Original post by Cpt Mothballs Yeah, but what would that system offer players who don't want to schmooze every

Methinks the mission BBS is the way to go with this. If you don't want to bother with this gameplay, you run missions off the board.

Now the question for me should be if these missions should be as rich / complex as the negotiation missions. I'm guessing no, because as a player what you're saying is "look, I just want to fly around, blast stuff and make some money to upgrade." Which is fine, but you're signaling that you really don't want to get into the world offered all that much. (And that should be fine, too, but like secret levels I want to offer rewards to those who work for them).

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Original post by Trapper Zoid I don't think it'd be a pain to negotiate a contract every time if the drag-and-drop interface is well designed.

There's also the idea of a run of contracts / contract term. So maybe you set up a contract once and run ten missions based on it.

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The main thing I'd avoid is the feeling I get in all diplomacy in Civ style games where the AI will only accept lopsided deals (unless they're completely against the ropes, but sometimes not even then).

Agreed! I always feel like I'm being screwed by the AI in Civ style games to the point where I rarely bother. They're too chummy with each other and it takes a ridiculous amount of work to keep them happy.

I think one way to fairly balance this is to base it on reputation and not be afraid of the growth curve. The first objection I might have is that the AI could give away too much and you'd be ultimately unhappy with the challenge level. But that's going to be up to balancing and giving the factions different personalities (and enough money/resource sinks).

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Just once I'd love to see an AI negotiate a fair contract with the presumptin of increasing good will between both parties. Y'know, kind of like how you're meant to in real-life [wink].

Maybe I should formalize this. Have a rating based on the strength of the relationship and the disposition of the faction you're negotiating with. In the beginning maybe many contracts are small, nicely rewarded goodwill missions.

In terms of giving up more on your side, what you're doing is telling the patron you want to build the relationship up to more complex missions. The patron may be telling you (and probably should in dialog/text) that they're interested in furthering the partnership, and they may offer more rewards up front in the beginning.

There could be a lot of depth to this. I could introduce a background notion of competition. Are you the only game in town? What if there's an up and coming outfit that's growing in power and threatening to take your business away? Would that put pressure on you to make more concessions or lock in long term contracts?

I think that sounds like a great idea. It might be pretty complex, however. This would be especially good if your game has an advanced reputation system. Imagine a mission that tells you to:

1) Steal X item from Planet Y
2) Take X to people on Planet Z

Well, imagine you are friends or allies with the people of Planet Y. You do not want to steal from them, for fear you might anger them.

So you decline option 1, but accept option 2 (since you can trade with the people from Planet Y instead of stealing), and modify the reward thusly.

That would be pretty cool, frankly.