Quote: I don't think that $50 is enough for that

Your system probably won't need more than a 300 watt PSU, and 400 watt would be plenty of margin. Thus, you can get an el cheapo case + PSU for less than $50. Some of them look nice. They won't be very solid, though.

Also, you have to factor in shipping and tax... and if you don't have a spare copy of Windows (or an MSDN subscription), you'll have to add about $70 for a "system builder" copy of Windows Vista, too.

Other than that, I think your selections are great value for money. Personally, I prefer NVIDIA, because of somewhat better OpenGL driver quality and more extension support -- but ATI isn't all that bad these days, either.

Quote: Original post by hplus0603
Also, you have to factor in shipping and tax... and if you don't have a spare copy of Windows (or an MSDN subscription), you'll have to add about $70 for a "system builder" copy of Windows Vista, too.

Sorry for going off-topic but: do MSDN subscriptions get you free copies of Windows?

Yes along with other tools, but it depends on which grade of subscription you have

Quote: Original post by Servant of the Lord

Quote: Original post by hplus0603
Also, you have to factor in shipping and tax... and if you don't have a spare copy of Windows (or an MSDN subscription), you'll have to add about $70 for a "system builder" copy of Windows Vista, too.

Sorry for going off-topic but: do MSDN subscriptions get you free copies of Windows?

Usually can install Windows on up to 10 pc's depending on what you get.
And I recommend an Nvidia card also if you plan on doing alot of Linux 3D stuff since last time I checked ATI drivers were still pretty flaky under Linux.
And AMD will be your cpu of choice if you want to save the most since equivalent Intel cpu's charge about a $50 surcharge usually.

Note: I wrote a bit too much perhaps; skim to the linked and bolded parts if you just want the highlights.

Case: Get anything that is cheap and seems like it should work; fancy cases are only useful if you need heavy-duty cooling, an extra quiet system, or you intend to tinker with it on a regular basis. Brick-and-mortar may be cheaper due to high shipping costs.

Power supply: You don't need a high wattage one, but get a good brand. Many are not reliable and/or cause instability by supplying noisy power at incorrect voltages. Corsair, Silverstone, PC Power and Cooling, Thermaltake, and Enermax all make reliable units. Get a ~400W unit with the right connectors for your system.

Motherboard: Choose carefully and don't be too cheap as a good motherboard is key to system stability. Check customer reviews (Newegg.com has lots) and the manufacturer's website to make sure you understand what problems and compatibility issues come with your board. For cheap AMD boards, I recommend a Gigabyte or Asus board based on the AMD 770 or 780 northbridge and the SB700 southbridge. Board size (full ATX vs micro ATX) effects primarily how many expansion slots are on the board; a full ATX board will usually have 7, while a micro ATX board will have 4. However what matters is how many a board has of each kind; count how many slots you need of each kind (PCI, PCI-E X1, PCI-E X4/8/16). Board size also determines what kind of case you need; some cases only accept the smaller micro ATX size.

CPU: An Athlon 64 X2 5000+ should work well; I believe Athlon X2 performance scales pretty much linearly with clock speed (GHz), so don't bother paying 30% more for a 10% clock speed bump or whatever. Athlon 64 chips are slower than their Intel counterparts per GHz for gaming, however for the same money you can get an Athlon chip that is clocked significantly higher, so on the low end it comes down in AMD's favor at the moment. As a rough rule of thumb, a 65nm Intel Core 2 based chip is equal to an AMD Athlon X2 at 1.2x of its clock rate: Intel Core 2 @ 2.2GHz = Athlon X2 @ 2.6GHz. For higher end chips, AMD just doesn't make anything as fast as Intel's pricier stuff at the moment (for gaming). AMD is coming out with 45nm 4-core chips soon which are supposed to be more competitive, so if you need to upgrade your new AMD system later you should have a viable option.

GPU: For ATI an HD4670, HD4830, or HD4850 would be good. For Nvidia an 8800GS, 9600GSO, 9600GT, or 8800GT=9800GT would be good. Order in both lists is cheapest to most powerful. The HD4670s have the special advantage that they do not require extra power beyond what the motherboard can supply them through the slot, which may let you skimp on the power supply a bit more. As far as ATI vs NVIDIA goes right now, ATI is a bit ahead performance wise. NVIDIA currently has better drivers, however the ATI windows drivers are good these days and ATI has been taking aggressive measures to improve their Linux driver quality for the future.

Hard drive: Your pick looks good. There are no gotcha's that I am aware of for hard drives smaller than 750GB currently. Just get one with the newer SATA, rather than PATA/IDE interface.

Optical drives: Spend the extra $5 to get a Retail, rather than OEM, copy. Retail includes a "free" copy of Nero and Power DVD generally. Without them (or equivalents) you will have a hard time burning discs and watching movies on your drive. Stand alone copies of the software cost a lot more. Also check the customer reviews on somewhere like Newegg.com to make sure the model you get handles slightly damaged or dirty disks respectably; some newer drives are very finicky about this.

RAM: Make sure to get the right kind. Most modern motherboards (including the AMD 770/780 boards I was suggesting) take DDR2 RAM. DDR2 RAM can have different required voltages. For DDR2, get 1.8V RAM for simplicity; it will work in any DDR2 motherboard and generates the least heat as well. It doesn't really cost extra unless you are trying to get very fast or dense sticks; just check the specs. Also be aware that a significant portion of RAM shipped is defective; be sure to run the memory test on your Ubuntu CD for at least one pass before you do anything else with the system. Kingston makes reliable, cheap RAM. This kit should be ideal for almost any DDR2-based system.

Cooling: The sort of parts we have been talking about do not require much extra cooling beyond the stock heat sinks and fans. Get a case with at least a fan or two, and try to avoid covering them with cables completely during installation. Also make sure your power supply has a fan (which will also help blow hot air out of the case). You should not have any problems unless you plan to overclock.

Thanks for all the great advice, much appreciated!

I think I will take the Radeon 4830 HD, which saves $30 over the 9800 GT. I don't expect to be pushing either one's limit just yet, and I plan to upgrade at a later date. In order to support any upgrades, I expect to put that savings back into the PSU, going for a 500W with twin 12V 16A rails. For the mother board, full ATX seems to carry a large surcharge, as do the name brands, so I think I am looking at a Biostar MicroATX - it has the suggested north and south bridge components, good reviews, and should support a considerably better processor in the future. Re the optical drive, looking at a $30 retail ASUS with lightscribe, etc.

That brings the system in pretty much exactly at $400, should still be under $450 with shipping and tax. Wouldn't mind going a little lower pricewise, but I think this is about my minimal spec, and should upgrade decently.

As to other items I will need: the hard drive is OEM, so I assume I will need a SATA cable, and some screws. All other components are retail, so should come with requisite cables, screws and brackets? Any other cables I may need, or anything else I am forgetting that will be needed?

The case generally comes with screws, unless it's a really el-cheapo OEM deal.
The motherboard generally comes with SATA cables, unless it's an OEM/white box.

If you're in MA, I don't think Newegg charges tax. Instead, you're supposed to report it on your tax return and pay at the end of the year. Make sure you don't forget to do that, that would be wrong!

Quote: Original post by swiftcoder
My one concern there (with ATI) is the quality of the OpenGL drivers - coming from Apple's atrocious driver quality, I don't want a repeat of that experience, and I have heard bad things re ATI's drivers.

I've been a long time NVidia fan but upgraded from a 7900GT SLI configuration to a 4850 and have been very impressed with the ATI drivers and the performance of the 4850. Not only that, but the ATI GLSL compiler is much stricter than the NVidia GLSL compiler, so (in my experience, anyway) you're almost guaranteed that if something works on your ATI card, it'll work for an NVidia card. The only caveat is I'm not sure about the quality of their Linux drivers -- I still use an NVidia card on my Linux machine.

Quote: Original post by hplus0603
If you're in MA, I don't think Newegg charges tax. Instead, you're supposed to report it on your tax return and pay at the end of the year. Make sure you don't forget to do that, that would be wrong!

I am real friendly with Mass state income tax - still waiting for my $80 tax refund from last year [wink]

Quote: Original post by venzon
I've been a long time NVidia fan but upgraded from a 7900GT SLI configuration to a 4850 and have been very impressed with the ATI drivers and the performance of the 4850. Not only that, but the ATI GLSL compiler is much stricter than the NVidia GLSL compiler, so (in my experience, anyway) you're almost guaranteed that if something works on your ATI card, it'll work for an NVidia card. The only caveat is I'm not sure about the quality of their Linux drivers -- I still use an NVidia card on my Linux machine.

Ja, doesn't sound like a decision I will regret. I will let you know how it works in linux...

In case anyone is interested, this is the build I have settled on (pending sufficient funds to actually make the purchase): http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=8690065

A couple of points:
The $400 ceiling is firm, which limited the build a little.
The 4830 seems to bench neck-and-neck with the 9800 GT, and is generally a good $30 cheaper.
Everything should upgrade nicely, but unfortunately the power supply will have to be upgraded before anything else. This PSU is 2x overkill for the current build, so it should be fine in the short term, but I wouldn't dare running it up to load at that price.
I would have liked a CrossFire-capable board, but that just wasn't going to fit in the budget, and I don't see a great deal of evidence to support a 2x 4830 setup over a single 4870 anyway.