Hey All, I've recently had great success posting my thoughts/questions here (most recently being on how to create an RPG with minimal graphics) so I thought I'd give it another shot. I've been designing the class system for the RPG I'm writing and I wanted to run it by the people here to get some feedback. The first part of the class system is fairly typical for RPGs. The characters will start with a base class which they can then advance into a second, more specialized class. The advancement will happen after a certain level is reached and they talk to the right person. The player will also be able to change the class of his/her characters at will. These are the current classes I have planned: Fighters Sword Fighters - Front line warriors who use dual swords. Basic focus is on damage dealing. Axe Fighters - Front line warriors who use either a giant axe or dual axes. Focus is on damage dealing. Axes also have a chance to lower enemy defenses on contact. Hammer Fighters - Front line warriors who use great hammers. Hammers have a chance to slow the enemy on contact. Tanks Stone Tank - The best at taking damage. Their body is made of part stone and can absorb crazy amounts of damage. Guard Tank - A tank focused on guarding other party members. Have skills that allow him/her to take damage for party members. Leader Tank - A tank focused on auras. Their auras can be used to mitigate damage and increase a party members defense. Mages Elemental Mage - The typical fire, ice, wind mage. Casts spells that deal damage. Spacial Mage - Has the ability to control time and space. Skills allow the mage to slow the enemy, put them to sleep, reduce HP, etc. Natural Mage - Has the ability to control nature. Skills allow the mage to control the weather, which in turn allows the damage from elemental attacks to be increased. Healers Divine Healer - Your typical healer. Can cast heals and resurrects. Time Healer - A healer focused on healing over time. Has no direct heals but is the best at HP, MP and other stat regen. Strength Healer - The buffer. Can increase all sorts of stats. Scouts Bow Scout - Back line damage dealer. Uses a bow to damage enemies. Dart Scout - Back line damage dealer. The darts can be tipped to inflict all sorts of crazy ailments on enemies. Spear Scout - Back line damage dealer. Uses throwing spears. Spears ignore defense. Rogues Dagger Rogue - Uses dual daggers to deal damage. The fastest of all classes, which grants them more attacks then others. Katana Rogue - Uses dual katanas. Katanas are used to reduce resistance to elemental and other types of magic. Shadow Rogue - Focuses on thievery. Can steal all sorts of stuff from enemies. This is what I have planned so far. I also plan to add a more advanced class system which will allow characters to unlock classes by mastering skills from one or more classes. Sort of like Final Fantasy Tactics but not really. I haven't finalized the details on that system yet so I can't share any yet :( Anyone have any feedback for me? I'd greatly appreciate it, thanks!

Here's the thing about your system...some seem shallow and limiting.

"I want to be rogue...What weapon do I want to use? well i like katanas so let's go with that... game goes on... I don't like katana, daggers look better can i be a dagger rogue now? no? pshh that sucks, why is there a difference anyways it's the same skill v.v

Basically you are adding a divide that hurts the play rather than helps it and doesn't seem natural. It looks like you haven't thought about the classes themselves. All you have done is taken what each of them can do generally and broken them up.

For example, why would a basic class be a tanker and fighter? They are the same thing except one is more damage oriented and one is more defense oriented. Like wise with a healer and a nuker. They are both mages they just use their abilities in different ways. If your going to have an evolving class like this It's my opinion that you use the 3 basics as the basics and go from there...

Melee
Magic
Range/Speed

From there they break down into...

Melee < Damage Dealer / Tank
Magic < Nuker / Healer
Range/Speed < Ranger(Scout)/Rogue

From there I would divide...
Damage Dealers into magiknight or barbarian
Tankers into the 3 you pretty much have
Nuker into the 3 you have
Healer into the 3 you have, but under more conventional names
-I'd also add in red, blue, and necromancer magics as special classes
Scouts and rogues you can't really split more as splitting them more alienates unless you are incredibly good at balancing. Or have equally cool things for each that will not people not like when they have to go for one thing over another... I always find that i pick a weapon based on looks less it's an emergency and it annoys me when i want to use a type of weapon but all the graphics for it looks like they came out of a blender.

Thanks for the reply, that was actually really helpful.. especially the comments about being locked into a weapon. I can see how forcing people into one weapon could be annoying to some gamers.

My thought process here was I was trying to create classes with a defined role. So, in that sense, I did just take what a class typically does and then just exploded that into different classes. As a gamer myself I've always hated having classes that do everything - for instance a mage that heals, damages, buffs, AND enfeebles. I've always liked more defined roles better so that's basically what I was going for here. I'm not against having classes that mix skills, however. As I said before, I was just trying to create a system where each class was very well defined.

I also wanted to touch on the reason for splitting Rogues and Scouts. I've always viewed scouts as more ranger type classes while rogues were more melee type. But, the more I spin on your comments the more I think I could probably but both those types into a "Scout" archetype. It would probably make more sense to do the same thing for the Fighter classes (Tanks included).

Thanks again for your thoughts, they were much help. I'll post an updated system when I finish revising this one. Feedback is always good!

Maybe it will help you AD&D Rules FAQ. I used it for my clone of the "Eye of the Beholder" serie.

So I've taken some time to read some more on this topic from here at Gamedev and else where. I've come up with a new structure that I think fits better with what I'm trying to create.

I've included a link to a chart of the new combat classes in the link below. This structure is fairly typical, honestly. I won't go into the details of every class but I will talk about a few classes in hopes it helps everyone understand exactly what I'm going for.

Class Structure - Clicky

Basically, characters will start off as one of three classes (Fighter, Mage, or Rogue). These classes are not very specialized. For instance, a Mage will be able to cast both attack and support magic. He will have a very limited choice of spells to cast from both schools and the effects would be pretty weak.

After the Mage has earned enough stars* for his class, he will then have the option to change to one of the more specialized classes - Healer and Sorcerer. These two classes specialize in either healing (Healer) or damaging (Sorcerer). A Healer will have more powerful healing and support spells but will not have any damage spells. The same is true (in reverse) for the Sorcerer.

After the character has earned enough stars for either the Healer or Sorcerer class he will be able to specialize even farther. In the Healer tree, this could be Priest or Cleric. A Priest would be single best healer in the game, and he/she would have only healing spells. A Cleric would be the single best support character in the game but would have only support spells (buffs and such).

The one area I haven't touched on yet are the classes Prophet, Paladin, Knight, Ninja, and Assassin. These are the hybrid classes in my game. They are not as general as the starting classes but they are not as specialized as the classes like Cleric and Sniper. For instance, a Paladin would be a pretty decent tank who has the ability to heal himself. Likewise, a Ninja would have the defense of a front-line Warrior while also having the agility of the Rogue classes.

This gives me the type of progression I think would fit into my RPG. Each character would start off small and relatively weak but would grow stronger and more specialized over time. Also, instead of offering a sub-class system I may offer more hybrid-type classes and maybe even more specialized classes. I have not figured that portion out yet, but I also don't plan to release that portion of the system until the game has been out for a little while.

Thoughts? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks again!

* Stars are earned by learning a certain percentage of the class' skills. Each class can earn up to 4 stars, so that would be 25% for each class star.

Ever heard of this thing called unorthodox?

Because these classes all seem relatively generic.

Also, personally, hammers should stun.

Daggers should slow on contact (Hamstring and bleeding) as well as grant a +1 turn.

Dual Wielders should get some kind of Ambidextrity bonus or penalty.

If you have fighters, why do you need tanks? Why not just make a defensive Fighter? They invented this thing called a shield for a reason. Besides, how are pure defense things going to draw aggro?

Why can't spacial mages teleport and summon vortexes to other dimensions? Seems like poor planning to give something that sounds so awesome just some boring status inducing spells.

All rogues should be able to steal.
And a katana rogue and sword fighter sound pretty much the same.

That's just all I have to say.

Honestly I think games with such strict class systems are doing nothing but hurting the game. Any person should be able to use any weapon. What is stopping a warrior from using a dagger? Are his hands too big and strong to hold it? What is stopping a rogue from holding a two handed sword? Does the rogue have fragile child-like hands and dainty upper body strength?

Certainly the rogue would not be capable of dealing as much power with a heavy two handed sword. The warrior would not be capable of using the dagger with as much speed. The mage might suck at melee fighting all together... but they should at least be able to do it.

I prefer seeing systems where the more a player invests in a skill, the stronger they become with that skill... however by doing so, other skills suffer. Saying "oh you're a mage so you can't hold a sword" is pretty discriminating, and downright illogical.

Sure it might work in a game with so many rules and limitations... But it sure as heck doesn't seem very realistic or progressive.

I think you should give the player the option to define who they get to be. Instead of the game defining it for them. Why take features of your game away from players simply because they are being forced to choose a path to take? You're basically forcing people to make multiple characters to get full enjoyment out of your game. Sure WoW does this, but that doesn't mean it's the best method.

Cpt Mothballs - I have updated the class system/structure since the first post, and it seems your reply is not applicable to the new system. Thanks though :)

Konidias -

Thanks for the reply. I typically, like you, dislike a class structure in most games. However, I am creating a single player RPG where the character can only have a party of up to 5 people (including him/her self). A class based system seemed more fitting for this type of game play as opposed to a skill based system. Please correct me if I'm wrong :)

Also, to help the "stuck to one class" situation that typically shows up in a class based system, I've made it so characters can change the class of themselves and their party mates at any given time. I also plan to make every weapon usable by every class. If the class doesn't have a skill for the weapon they have equipped, they will get penalized, but nothing is going to stop a Mage from using a greatsword or a Defender from using a staff.

Can you clarify the difference between the Elemental and Natural Mage?

Question #1: Is this the same game you were talking about in your other thread? Namely, this one:

Quote:

So I have this idea floating around in my head. It's basically a single-player RPG with multi-player elements. Let me try and explain a little further before I go on to ask my question. It would basically be a standard turn based RPG with a story and all that good stuff. At the start players will chose from a list of archtypes. Lets use Fighters and Traders for example. Fighters would support war effort by going out and fighting. Traders would support the war effort by staying around town, gathering resources, and crafting items. Traders would also run shops where they could sell their goods to other players. The gathering of materials, the crafting, the fighting, etc would all be single player ...

If the answer is no, you may ignore the following rant.

If the answer is yes, then you should ask yourself whether you're designing the classes for a (massive) multiplayer RPG rather than a single-character single-player RPG. Both of your class design attempts are much closer to a full-blown MMO class design than something suitable for a single player RPG.

First of all, the focus on "roles" is completely obsolete if we're talking single player, especially exclusive roles you plan to give to your high level characters. Each and every character class should be able to progress through the game at about the same pace, and each class should be as fun to play (solo). If some class can't keep up with the others, and it doesn't have any "flair" to it that would attract the players to roll such a character, it shouldn't even exist. Who are the dedicated tanks going to tank for, and who are the dedicated healers going to heal?