Do you think this sort of thing could be interesting in a game? Not an extremely interactive sort of thing. Something quick and intense that wouldn't take up much of the player's time. The biggest problem is entering them without the player knowing. When a real dream begins, it doesn't seem possible to know when and where it started. I've never "woken" into a dream. I'm just there, and it makes sense. How would it be possible to enter a dream state without it being obvious? I'm considering dreams that do really crazy stuff. Things that really untie the normality of the game world, but still seem somewhat reasonable. Some of them might be obvious, and that's not a problem. But I want them to be obvious because the events in the dream seem too unreasonable, and not because the player just walked out of an INN. Some dream examples: - The player walks out into the street, and notices small glowing fireballs in the sky that look like shooting stars. Someone in the background says "is it thundering?" He looks farther up (or at least possibly, since the player is in full control), and notices even more fireballs. Turning a little more, he notices a huge black and red circle covering most of the sky. It quickly becomes larger as the scene starts to shake, and people start to scream. BOOM! It impacts, splits the planet in half, and he wakes up. - The main evil-like enemy of the game approaches the player on the street and engages in casual conversation. He asks the player casual questions, and the player can only respond with casual answers. After a short moment, he brings up the player's secret mission. That the player has been working for him the entire time, preparing to turn against all of his would-be friends and allies. The dream would probably end with the two of them being caught talking together by his allies, or something similarly bothersome. But the psych-out would be the main attraction in this one. It would be possible to forcably wake yourself from a dream, if you know it is one (IE, if you've played the game once before). Even if the player knows they can verify that a dream is a dream with this action, they know that if it is one, they will break out of it and miss out on whatever happens next. So if they're interested in it, they're forced to let it play out without knowing for sure. Any comments or opinions? Ideas?

What would be obvious giveaways? Alterations in game physics? Psychedelic deformations of objects? Garbled voices?

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How would it be possible to enter a dream state without it being obvious?

Morrowind stands out to me as a game that made you rest frequently in arbitrary places. In that kind of situation it would be easy to "wake up" into a dream world instead, as long as the dream isn't too location-specific.

So that's my simple answer: make resting an integral part of the game, and make the dreams somewhat adaptable random events. The only problem I see is if your actions in the dream are entirely inconsequential. Then it's just a glorified cutscene.

Make the dreams have consequences for the player character, but not on the game world. Also keep the dreams at least partly procedural so that even after many play throughs the player doesnt know just what is going to happen. Keep in mind that knowing it is a dream is part of the fun. Lucid dreaming is something a lot of people attempt at when they sleep IRL.

If there is something fresh and new every time and it has a purpose then it is a lot more than eyecandy.

I'd say make the transition from waking to sleeping more seamless. Yes, falling into a dream while resting is a good idea, but the players are ready to "wake into a dream" any time they go to sleep. Have it possible to pass out from exhaustion (without warning - no animation, just a smooth transition into a dream), or to be knocked out by particularly hard blows. Poison gas is another way.

While in the dream, don't use mechanics that immediatly alert the player to the fact that they're in a dream. Continue gameplay as if nothing had changed, but slowly throw in more and more bizarre elements. The baddie that hit them so hard they were K.O.ed in one blow dies far too easily. A few moments later, it's back - with help. I'm not a dream designer, but you get the idea.

When the dream is over, simply transition the world back to how it was prior to falling asleep (perhaps timelapsed to cover the time spent sleeping) and then play the animation that alerts the player to the fact that they were asleep.

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Original post by LessBread What would be obvious giveaways? Alterations in game physics? Psychedelic deformations of objects? Garbled voices?

I would want to avoid any obvious giveaways for some dreams. The only giveaway that is unavoidable is entering the dream. If something crazy happens right after your character wakes in the game, it's pretty likely that it's a dream. Unfortunately, I can't think of any other way to enter them, save random standing unconsciousness. But that would be more like visions or hallucinations than dreams.

Zouflain: Those are the things I've been considering. I would still like to find a slightly less disruptive way to enter dreams. If it happens during intense real-world situations, it might get pretty annoying.

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Original post by drakostar The only problem I see is if your actions in the dream are entirely inconsequential. Then it's just a glorified cutscene.

How you took out bad guy #24 in Half Life or Doom is entirely inconsequential. That doesn't make it any less fun. The dreams would be completely interactive. They may not influence the real game world, but the player would have the chance to do things and experience things that won't be realistically possible in the normal game.

Have you thought about possible player frustration? If the rules of the gameplay change in the dream state, yet the player doesn't know they are in the dream state, wouldn't the player become frustrated and/or confused because of the change?

What about breaks in immersion? Could changes in gameplay break that? What about audio/visual effects that appear in the dream? If the player is confused by it, it will pull them out of the game.

And once the player knows they are in a dream state, then wouldn't the effect of the dream state wear off or even become an annoyance? One recent example was Doom III and it's fear factor. It was scary the first few times an imp jumped out from a dark corner, but after awhile, it just got annoying and distracting.

Most importantly, is there any particular reasons why you would add dreams as a game element? What type of effect are you trying to have on the player? How does it relate to the gameplay?

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Original post by cyansoft If the rules of the gameplay change in the dream state, yet the player doesn't know they are in the dream state, wouldn't the player become frustrated and/or confused because of the change?

They wouldn't change. The game would be controlled normally, as if the event was really happening.

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What about breaks in immersion? Could changes in gameplay break that? What about audio/visual effects that appear in the dream? If the player is confused by it, it will pull them out of the game.

The dreams will be plausible, however unlikely. I don't think they would bother my immersion. That's not to say a dream wouldn't be capable of breaking it, just that I would try not to use dreams that do.

Real dreams sometimes bend my real life immersion. I've found myself questioning the possibility of reality reseting itself and changing my memory each time I die. If it's true, then I've really gotten around, and my deaths have had a lot of variety. Joking, of course. I hope.

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And once the player knows they are in a dream state, then wouldn't the effect of the dream state wear off or even become an annoyance?

The dreams would be extremely limited (6 or 7 in the game), and you could stop them any time you wanted. I doubt they would become a problem for anyone.

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Most importantly, is there any particular reasons why you would add dreams as a game element?

What-if scenarios and psych-outs so far. Though there may be other possibilities I haven't considered.

Also keep in mind that I don't need heavy justification to implement this. If it makes the player smile, that's enough.

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Original post by Kest Do you think this sort of thing could be interesting in a game? Not an extremely interactive sort of thing. Something quick and intense that wouldn't take up much of the player's time.

I thought about this and I'm sure a lot of other people have to. The concept seems cool, but you need a reason for it or it'd just be a gimmick.

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The biggest problem is entering them without the player knowing. When a real dream begins, it doesn't seem possible to know when and where it started. I've never "woken" into a dream. I'm just there, and it makes sense. How would it be possible to enter a dream state without it being obvious?

I dunno, I mean I've "woken up" into a dream before, especially as a child. Clues can be subtle, such as the hands on the clock on the wall running backwards or objects sizes/relationships being disproportionate.

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I'm considering dreams that do really crazy stuff ...

The problem I see with the ideas you lay out is that they seem be more like cinematics than gameplay, or interactive experiences. Having a hokey dream sequence isn't something that is really going to add to a player's experience. Something that would be more interesting is setting up a situation where the player "relives" situation inside of a dream.

Say for instance earlier in the game your character fights a villain who just killed your woman. In your dream sequence you would actually go back to that scene investigate while it is occuring, you could view the fight through the eyes of a bye-stander (such as the dying damsel), or you could literally redo to the fight. In the later concepts you could be re-experiencing the fight and gleaning new information because you are going to be paying attention to something that you wouldn't have before because of some bit of information you received after the fact.

In short, I think dream sequences can be fun, but not if they're just static cut scenes and not unless they have a real purpose, ie something that will help propel the game will be revealed.