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Original post by CoderFish I'm interested in your thoughts on archetypes and genres. I was at an AI planning conference a while back, and in several cases researchers were using the tropes of fairy-tales, or other well-established genres, to inform rules in narrative planning systems, so new, unique, stories could be generated within those genres. The planning systems could also change the narrative dynamically, allowing for player interaction within those narratives. It's not a new idea, but its use in games is fairly limited (Fahrenheit did something similar but more limited). It would definitely be handy in something like Infinity, for example (procedural quest generation?).

Actually I've written a bunch on this topic, try searching the design and writing forums for 'story generation' or 'plot engine'. I attempted to describe how a story generation engine could be constructed, but also concluded that it was too large of a problem for a single person to solve.

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Original post by valentin-galea damn! i was under the impression (from the title) this will be a discussion about porn:)

Me too, my Romanian friend, me too....

1. Yes, whole-heartedly. I know so because I've played Alter Ego and I thought that was brilliant (even with the REALLY basic UI). For your reference - I'm male and I'm 30.

2. A theme I'd personally like to see much more in games is coping with bad decisions of your own making. A game where you make choices that may initially have negative consequences, and then later turn out to be good, indifferent or simply bad. This would have to be a game where you can't backtrack, forcing the player to deal with the consequences of their actions.
I find this kind of game-play engaging - most games are about "what if I didn't do that wrong" - I want one about "what if I did do that wrong"!

The theme is interesting and has been done well before but it has also been done horribly. I suppose it would have to do with the execution; even cliché storylines can be very entertaining if they are done right and the character evolution is there.

Personally I find stories of betrayal interesting. I suppose if they are centered around politics it helps put things in context. I absolutely hate it when a character that you grow to love betrays the main character for an obscene reason. I like it when the morality behind the betrayal is in a grey zone.

Take Joey in Suikoden 2 as an example. He betrays your party because he believes the quickest way to bring peace to the land is by ending war and that the side closest to winning is the 'evil' empire. He also believes that if he can get high enough in the ranks that he can have a positive influence on the decisions made against the rebellion. You never actually end up hating him because he's not a bad person.

edit: Oh and I'm a 23 year old male.

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Original post by sunandshadow 2. Is there some other adult-focused theme you would like to see developed in a game or other type of entertainment?

Space Games seem also to target a teenage mind. Expand and Conquer the universe. Take your Rightful Place.

How about Now-That-You're-King?
I'de like to see a space game where the universe is already fully populated with a thriving interstellar community. Politics that involve working out who knows who, and influencing their friendships. A barter system that doesn't involve a generic central bank. Some limited resources, and some unlimited. A technology map that doesn't scream 'bigger, newer, more expensive'. And a bit less of the Star-Vaporizer missiles.

Male, 44.

19 Male (I know, I'm still just a kid)

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Because I'm still on the young side, I'd definitely find a 'politics' game extremely boring. I have a hard time with even 'sim' games because they just don't hold my attention. But that's just me.

However, what with the average gamer age increasing there is now a nice big niche market for adults, if they're interested in what you've described.

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Original post by sunandshadow The main character would be an adult who was going through a sort of midlife crisis where they were realizing their youth was gone, and although they were proud of some things they had accomplished, or at least felt that they had mostly done the best they could, they regretted where they had failed, and mourned dreams that had never come to fruition.

I don't think the mid-life regrets that make dreams disappear is about growing old. It's about marriage and children. Gaining responsibility and losing freedom. When the only person you need to look out for is you, you can do exactly what you want, whenever you want, however you want, for as long as you want.

Unless you're just talking about the fantasy of wanting to become a child again, to exploit life's preconceptions about children with your grown up mind, and correct all of the mistakes that you made in your youth. I think everyone has probably had that fantasy. Beat up that bully that messed with you in 3rd grade, kiss that cute person that liked you in 8th grade, and make that perfect move that you were afraid to make on your first date. But I doubt a game would be capable of fulfilling this fantasy on the personal level that it needs to be. Most games are already fulfilling it as best they can - by just letting us roleplay as different people.

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Then through some sort of magic or technology they are given the chance to start over, retaining their memories and the spiritual injuries of a tough life, but given a new young blank body which would become individualized over time by their own actions, told they had a new magic or sfnal skill to develop, placed in a school with some actual teenagers to show the contrast between living a life for the first time or having to start over. Perhaps this second chance life would also come with an expectation of becoming a soldier, and the main character would have to decide whether they wanted to do that or whether they preferred to be a civilian despite the cost of rebelling.

This is exactly what role playing is all about. The magic is starting the game up. They retain their memories of real (tough) life, they are given a new body to develop into something great, and are almost always expected to fulfull a grand purpose.

If we take "popular games that are much more likely to be played by an adult than by an adolescent" as key criteria here, the archetype of adult-oriented games is Solitaire.

Despite initially having to identify with a mid-age protagonist, I don't think that the "new life" game described in the first post actually fulfills that criteria.

Topics that require some level of maturity, such as politics, philosophy and ethics might be considered "adult content" on some level, but is that content likely to appeal to an adult gamer, especially in form of electronic entertainment? I very much doubt it.

Since we're making a generalized profile - an ordinary adult has a job to do, bills to pay, family to take care of, and probably dozens of nerve-wrecking problems and responsibilities of one kind or another that pop up on daily basis. I wouldn't expect he wants to get immersed into deep contemplation of serious subjects in his spare time.

[Edited by - Talin on May 9, 2008 6:06:13 PM]

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Original post by sunandshadow So, two questions for you all, forum goers: 1. Would you find a game or other type of entertainment (anime, novel) with this theme interesting and appealing? Along with your answer please note your age and gender, so I can tell if the idea appeals more to a certain age group. [smile]

Maybe, I don't generally think that theme of a game has much impact on how much I enjoy it. It really depends on what I get to do as a player. From what you've described, it sounds similar to Fable, but in a contemporary setting. One issue I had with Fable, is that there was a lot you could do, but not with any kind of depth. Ended up being pretty shallow gameplay wise, and I think that's a real risk when you make something too open ended.

Also -

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"Perhaps this second chance life would also come with an expectation of becoming a soldier, and the main character would have to decide whether they wanted to do that or whether they preferred to be a civilian despite the cost of rebelling.

this would make the game very hard to produce. You would end up wasting a lot of art assets if the player decided to become a soldier, and vice versa.

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2. Is there some other adult-focused theme you would like to see developed in a game or other type of entertainment? Perhaps one you already enjoy in a different genre but haven't seen done in a game?

I think more games should be in a contemporary setting, versus sci-fi or fantasy.

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1. Would you find a game or other type of entertainment (anime, novel) with this theme interesting and appealing?

Possibly, but I doubt that it's an element that would particularly draw me to the game. I don't think that it would be likely to drive me from it either, however. I think that the final result would depend largely on the specifics, setting, gameplay, story and style of the entertainment in question.

I'm male, and 25.

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2. Is there some other adult-focused theme you would like to see developed in a game or other type of entertainment? Perhaps one you already enjoy in a different genre but haven't seen done in a game?

Hmm... I'm not sure of how often it is currently encountered in games (I'm pretty confident that such games do exist, however), but I think that it might be nice to see some thoughtful treatments of philosophical topics.

By the way, I would like to mention one game that I feel included some mature topics: Gabriel Knight 2. As I recall, the core theme was the conflict between instinctual, physical urges and spiritual desires, but also touched on were themes of homosexuality, in particular one character's suppression of it, and the desire for partnership. (I suspect that I'm forgetting some of the themes that I thought of earlier, but may be wrong.)

Finally, it has a primary villain that is actually, I would say, highly sympathetic, with, again in my opinion, quite human motives.

Given that the game has some following even today, I believe, I'm inclined to guess that this adds weight to the idea that a game that bears at least some mature topics could find a place in the gaming community.

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Originally posted by Talin Topics that require some level of maturity, such as politics, philosophy and ethics might be considered "adult content" on some level, but is that content likely to appeal to an adult gamer, especially in form of electronic entertainment? I very much doubt it.

I don't know about the general case, but I think that at least a subsection of adults enjoy the discussion of such topics in depth, to a degree of involvement that suggests to me that at least some of those (and perhaps others, who might not be sufficiently interested to enter discussions, but are nevertheless interested) might enjoy games that explore such topics, if they were handled well.

Quite frankly, I think that philosophy is probably a great area for games to explore. Again, I'm not sure to what degree it would appeal to the average gamer - especially since it might yet take a little time for maturely-themed games to filter into the mainstream - but I do think that there is a place for such. There's probably place for politics as well, although that's far less to my own, personal interest.