Quote: Captain Griffen - Sorry but you really missed my point. What I am trying to say is: Cliches are both those things which are included in lots of games, as well as those things which are excluded from lots of games. When we brainstorm ideas for a game we should remember that we have these unconscious assumptions, and challenge them in brainstorming. In other words, cliches are the box we should strive to think outside of. Yes it may turn out that the cliche way to do it is the best way, the most fun way. Yes sometimes you can tap into your audience's sense of humor or nostalgia by deliberately using a cliche, maybe with a twist. But identifying and challenging one's unconscious assumptions is a fundamental key to originality.

You seem to be confusing avoiding clichés with avoiding developers' presumptions; often they go together, but they aren't the same thing. Mixing concepts like that is very bad as it just confuses people. If you feel the need to change the subject to 'getting around developer's assumptions' (which is a closely related subject), please be explicit when doing it.

I was having a problem coming up with good unique storylines, but I found a link on the web that saved my creative life a few years ago. This was built with the idea of table top RPGs I think, but I have found it works for any storytelling medium, including novels and computer RPGs

http://www.rpglibrary.org/articles/storytelling/36plots.html

This presents you with 36 situations (very abstract) which basicaly detail down various person vs person and person vs enviornment scenarios. If your anything like me , you can use this sucker to come up with some VERY unique setups.

Hopefully this helps!
Richard

Quote: Original post by Captain Griffen
You seem to be confusing avoiding clichés with avoiding developers' presumptions; often they go together, but they aren't the same thing. Mixing concepts like that is very bad as it just confuses people. If you feel the need to change the subject to 'getting around developer's assumptions' (which is a closely related subject), please be explicit when doing it.

I don't agree that the two concepts are different, that's all. Being a 'story designer' who assumes that there is a race called elves who have pointy ears and long lives, etc., is no different than being a 'gameplay designer' who assumes that there is an object called XP which playable characters get from killing monsters and which results in that character 'leveling up' when enough is collected.

I wouldn't harp on the issue except I think that it's inherently bad to separate story design and game design, it handicaps a writer trying to create a fresh unique game world and story if they assume the game will have totally standard boring gameplay.

Quote: Original post by sunandshadow

Quote: Original post by Captain Griffen
You seem to be confusing avoiding clichés with avoiding developers' presumptions; often they go together, but they aren't the same thing. Mixing concepts like that is very bad as it just confuses people. If you feel the need to change the subject to 'getting around developer's assumptions' (which is a closely related subject), please be explicit when doing it.

I don't agree that the two concepts are different, that's all. Being a 'story designer' who assumes that there is a race called elves who have pointy ears and long lives, etc., is no different than being a 'gameplay designer' who assumes that there is an object called XP which playable characters get from killing monsters and which results in that character 'leveling up' when enough is collected.

I wouldn't harp on the issue except I think that it's inherently bad to separate story design and game design, it handicaps a writer trying to create a fresh unique game world and story if they assume the game will have totally standard boring gameplay.

The two have to work in parallel, but they are separate issues.

Someone may have posted this but what I do when creating stories is I write a list of cliches, and I cant use ANY of them. Period. None...

Then I listen to music and get images and scenes in my head and write them down, then I explain the scenes in words, and these become the basis of a story.

Using this tactic I have been able to come up with plenty of non-cliche stories.

An easy way to get around JRPG cliches is to subvert them. That is, have the cliche set up, and then let it play out completely differently. The hooker with a heart of gold is really just a gold digger. The climactic moment where the hero stops the evildoer from pressing the button... only to press it himself.