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Original post by sunandshadow While playing mmos, one of my recurring frustrations has been that the gear which gives the right stats for my build and level is usually either ugly or mismatched. In addition I have seen several games where people love creating characters and can spend hours doing it (like Sims2 for example).

People advancing in the game for bling, rather than bang, would emphasize fashion. Perhaps you want clothes customization as a partial reward, rather than a main component of a reward. This would allow it to exist as a passive, or non-essential element to gameplay, while still letting it provide its effects to the player.

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Original post by sunandshadow Erm, any more specific suggestions on where to look? Is the info in the forums somewhere?

Yeah, I had read about it long ago, and wasn't sure where I had found it. I did a quick google search for 'hero's journey character creation' and the top result explains it:
GameAmp's description of it
2nd result was where I read it: MMORPG.com's description of the feature

As it happens, I got bored with Morrowind's plot early on and ended up playing the game with the exclusive purpose of finding clothing and armour.

Although a lot of customization should be available at the beginning, I don't see what's wrong with limiting certain fasion characteristics, enhncements, or accessories to achievement rewards. After all, it's not like they hand out a sherrifs badge to just anyone. Can't help but wonder what would happen if a player could put on a uniform they stole and pose as an enforcement officer.

If you were to have all the characters starting out looking generic then the best design decision would be to mask it. Do something similar like Medieval 2: Total War, where they randomized a units armor and clothing based on what they were and where they were from. Just have a set look of 'commoner' clothes for each major city and race and then randomize the slots and colors so it's hard to notice.

This could also be applied for any clothing acquired later on. There's always a chance you're going to have players looking similar to someone else, or spot on. So if you randomize aesthetic parts for the clothing then there's less of a chance of that being noticeable.

In a multiplayer module for Neverwinter Nights 1 that I have been working on (as a hobby) I included the ability to change the character's appearance as the player liked. All dyes and materials are availabel from the start, however, some dyes and materials cost more.

So players can make their avatar look how they like, but it costs them a bit to do so. This discourages them from just changing their look every time the log on, but still allows them to do so if they really want.

As development continues, I will be haveing the certain dyes and materials in different places in the world to encourage exploration. However, even new players will potentially have access to alal the materials but they just have to go look for them.

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However, I think just changing the dye is not enough, unless different dyes result in special properties or something.

I think that seperating style from functionallity is a good thing. It encourages a metagame (that is beying the gameplay) competition among some players to design and look the best. This actually encourages comunity building as they try to out do each other.

Think of how modifications to cars (and computer cases) brings groups of people together to discuss what they ahve done and admire those that excell at such custom jobs. Also Clans can set up a kind of "uniform" that members could wear and identify themselves with. If appearance is tied to any gameplay mechanics/functionality, then none of this can easily occur.

One thing that MMOs try to do is give the players a reason for wandering around the world and looking for things. Usually this is done by Quests. By having the player have to complete quests and wander far and wide to do so, the developers soak up time from the players and also encourage them to wander aroudn teh see the world that they created for you. By having an appearance system that has some hidden or remote objects that are desirable, you can achieve the same effect, but make the journy much more personal for the player.

I think it is the impersonal nature of the quests tha makes the grinding so hard to bear. When a player has to travel 30 minuts in game from one town to the next, just to drop off 15 goblin ears, it doesn't really engage them. But if they had to do the same journy but for their own reasons (to get that bling they want, or to get the dye that will show that they are a member of the Tailors guild), it maks the journy more interesting.

Humans are social creatures, why not allow player to express this in games? Fassons, style and standign out form the crown are all very important to the psychy of humans. If they can engage this in game, then this can only be a good thing.

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Perhaps you want clothes customization as a partial reward, rather than a main component of a reward.

I don't think that avatar customization should be an integral part of the quest reward structure. Players should still have to work to get the customization, but not as directly part of a quest's reward.

Completeing a quest might give them the funds to afford the customization, but this is an indirect reward rather than a direct reward for questing.

By having such an indirect reward from questing it give the players a long term goal other than just advancing their characters' experience levels.

If instead of making the work not about aquireing the resources (dyes etc) to customize the avatar, but have the costs in changing the style and colours of the avatar, then you create a situation where regular changing of styles is the indicator social standing (as this indicates that you have the resources to afford to do this).

Taking the subject off RPGs and sticking to just the thread title, isn't adding gameplay to the characters screens just what Spore is trying to achieve? You create your character how you want, then how you created it is meant to affect every stage of the game and the actions you can take from then on.

I definately think that there's gameplay to be had from character customisation, though. (Back to RPGs...) Oblivion, with its character alignments and archetypes, seemed to be suggesting it would offer different gameplay for each type, but when playing the game it was too easy to earn all the skills. Although, being a vampire offered some different gamplay choices.

As for a situation in which people started off looking "generic", starting off as children, when both sexes tend to look relatively alike before puberty anyway, would be an easy solution. I'd say it would be easy for a human to empathise with being a child, too. An MMO with everyone playing as kids stranded on an island - ala "Lord of the Flies" or "Battle Royale" - could be cool. You could change your appearance organically: fall down a muddy slope and then don't wash and you would be a dirty kid; break your spectacles and they couldn't be fixed; skin your knee and you'd have a scab and eventually maybe a scar; tear your clothing and it would stay that way unless someone knew how to mend it... and so on.

A reason why everyone is wearing a uniform is fundamentally what you need anyway (unless everyone will be naked and have generic body shapes). Prisoners, soldiers, police, schoolkids - all of them have recognisable strict codes of dress.