Your points are fair enough, and I use to agree with most of them myself. However having worked in the industry what I have experienced is a very different set of expectations and ideas. Third party solutions, middle ware, and libraries are the cup of tea I have found in the software realm. Everyone is about saving money/time, and standardizing things so that anyone on the team can pick it up and work with it.

Performance can be a good reason to manually do things vs. using existing code, but I would be skeptical of this, without seeing it profiled. This is probably a broad statement, but I'm going to say that 70% of software development doesn't care that much about performance anymore. Typically we have plenty of CPU and memory to work with. Obviously the cases were this isn't true is embedded work, or mobile devices, or even games to a certain extent, but then if your having major performance issues in a game converting to a manual linked list isn't likely the solution.

I guess in my view things like basic data structures are becoming the way of basic variable types. The new domain of knowledge that should really be getting tested and drilled on is in threading, parallel processing, design patterns, and this sort of knowledge.

In the end do I recommend a trade school or college for most? Yes. Do I think its a requirement? No, not if your a good at what you do, can learn quickly, and don't mind some potential obstacles. I just wouldn't look at a CS curriculum as providing you the actual skills you will need when you land your first job. Of course there are internships and many things like that, which can be done and I think those are great if you are at the right age. I started going to college at 25, and it was mandatory for me to hold a full time job at the same time preventing a lot of these options. In the end for me, it was simply a matter of time and money, vs. value. I could spend 4-5 years to get a degree and be 30, or I could just take a harder road and get what I want now. I choose to do it without the degree, and I haven't regretted it.

As to school for learning other things besides your trade, I can do that on my own, and don't need to invest that much time or money to do it.

Quote: Original post by Zenroth
In the end do I recommend a trade school or college for most? Yes. Do I think its a requirement? No, not if your a good at what you do, can learn quickly, and don't mind some potential obstacles.

Interesting.

Some of those potential obstacles include:
* Added difficulty finding jobs and promotions. This isn't just at the entry level; it will be revisited with every new job and several major career turning points.
* Reduced pay for your entire career. This is both because you will be valued less, and part from the previous bullet point. Over your life time, this could easily reach a million-dollar mark.
* Peers will generally (consciously or not) view your background in a less favorable light.
* Social events and networking will be awkward when they start talking about education levels and school experiences.

I've worked with very few people who have not had a college degree. That is, of course, excluding junior level and interns who were students. Most of them frequently talked about wanting to go back to school, but couldn't arrange the time, money, or other resources. Two of them actually did get degrees through night-school.

I only know of one of them who was content with his position and didn't really complain about his lack of formal schooling. Sadly, he would frequently get stuck when it came to technical aspects of work, and he had only moved up once when all of his peers had moved up two or three pay grades.



If your situation does not permit you to attend college, then it is understandable. Many people are unable to go through school for a wide range of reasons. But if you are able to do it, I strongly recommend that finish a degree program. Any degree program, even a less-than-useful one, will help you in your career. Several administrators I've worked with had degrees in unrelated fields including botany and English. In fact, one of our now-former leads (I forgot what he was promoted to a few months ago, but he doesn't work with me) had a degree in astronomy.


I have never met any experienced individuals with a BS or even MS degree who said it wasn't worth finishing the degree. On the other side, I have heard many people complain about not taking advantage of higher education when it was available.

A lot of the obstacles you listed are dependent on the company you work for.
Getting a job with a large company will be harder for sure, moving up can be depending on the culture of the company.

Some companies cultures don't care though, and respect talent and capability demonstrated through work and success. As to pay I have not noticed it, I was hired on making more than my peers with college degrees.

You also have to look at your goals, if you want to work in the industry as a employee and go as high as you can you will most likely want degrees. They can't hurt you, and most likely will help you. However if your planning on running your own business, or studio then its fairly mute I would say. Some of your biggest and most powerful businesses have been started by people that didn't finish school or go to it at all.

One may skip collage if you have that edge from the rest. I did a year at collage getting my AS levels (which don't even count towards university). So really it was a waste of a year, however in social development I did gain a lot.

I went straight from collage at 17 to SEGA. As a 6 month contracted environment artist. Now your thinking big jump. Indeed it is and was great to be on SEGA's team for SEGA Rally Revo.

It all depends on your portfolio and the company your applying to. SEGA was a shot in the bucket and one off. Applying to companies such as EA are much more degree driven.

Codemasters, Team 17 and even Sony have a leniency on interviewing people without degrees providing they have a high level of skill.

I went backwards in my career. Started off at a top studio then went to a small studio to develop my game design skills more. You will find in smaller companies you are able to experiment and play around with ideas rather then being burned away by the big corporate companies such as Microsoft and EA. Many people enjoy smaller companies then gigantic companies.

I currently work for a small studio who create flash and Shockwave games for clients. It’s a big step down from AAA title development however you will find these flash and Shockwave games have taught me a lot about simplistic design and prototyping. Something I will value a lot from later on in my career at a bigger studio.

A-lot is down to who you know as-well. Get contacts even if it's the Human resource directors of studios. Once you got a contact you start to gain many positions opening to your career.

Collage is seen as a safe way for potential designers, artists and programmers to enter the industry, however many studios I know of don't consider degree as a requirement. This is a creative industry and yes a degree can help but we like to see people with that creative flare, the guys/girls who go mad with ideas, Mod teams are a great example and the indie industry.

Good luck in your career and hope this gave you some inside info.

@inbox James:
Dude, you can't even spell "college."


No, seriously, shit like that really gets to me. Invariably, people who advocate skipping college exhibit a variety of basic deficiencies in their education, especially spelling and grammar. "Yeah, but I'm a programmer so it doesn't matter." Sorry, no dice. You need to communicate effectively with your teammates, and potentially with contractors, vendors and service personnel.

Take the thread title:

• can refers to possibility; almost anything is possible, so the answer to questions beginning in "can" is almost always yes.


• may refers to permission; none of us here are in a position to tell anyone else what to do.


• should and would are solicitations of opinion or recommendation.

It matters.

Narrow focus on the acquisition of technical skills alone is why so much software is so bad: the developers have no idea what the people using the software need, how they think, who they are. Software developers excel at making software for machines and other software developers - people who have conditioned themselves over time to be able to think like machines. For regular people, their batting average ain't so pretty.

Go to college. Expand your horizons. Learn something useful. Yes, you can pick up all the requisite technical skills on your own, but if that's the only reason why you're going to college, you're a fool.

(Oluseyi Sonaiya has a Bachelor of Arts degree in Cinema and Cultural Studies from Stony Brook University. He currently works as a web developer and software architect for the BET Interactive division of VIACOM in New York City.)

So you are about to spend 75,000 USD on a BSc in a very specific area of the software industry? I had this option, and decided on a more generic Software Engineering degree. It makes sense in the long run. There are video game design degrees at my university, but from what I hear them saying the profs have no idea what they are talking about, and I doubt the will find it easier to get a job in the game industry than I will.

I am currently building my portfolio, while simultaneously studying for a degree that will help me learn some useful skills. Even then, I question some of the things we are learning on this course, some of which strike me as just mental masturbation.

I really do not think that limiting yourself to one sector, game development, is such a good idea, especially since that is one of the more brutal sectors of the industry. Want job security? Get a broader range of skills.

Quote: Original post by inbox James
One may skip collage [sic] if you have that edge from the rest. I did a year at collage [sic] getting my AS levels (which don't even count towards university).

Note that the word "college" has different meanings to Americans and Brits.
Note that the word "Americans" might or might not include Canadians (although we share the North American continent) since I've recently discovered that the word "diploma" has different meanings to Canadians and, um, U.S.ians.

Quote: Original post by Oluseyi
(Oluseyi Sonaiya has a Bachelor of Arts degree in Cinema and Cultural Studies from Stony Brook University.

Oh! It's a name, not a nick!
Ya learn something new every day.
My BA is in Speech & Drama, from SUNY Fredonia.
Noo Yawk! (Currently living in Sunny L.A.)

One can do anything if they put the effort into it and knowing the right people helps. But for the average person like me (who has never created the Next Big Thing(tm)) having a degree helps getting your foot in the door. If you have the skills and the HR people don't throw out your resume because you don't have a degree then its very doable to get a job.

I was also very socially active doing preppy things in school (binge drinking, easy girls) that I've gotten contacts with people in a wide range of fields. College was a good social experience for me. You're an adult but you still get your hand held most of the time. It's time I would have never got if I had got a job straight out of high school.

Just to be clear (since some people seem to be under the wrong impression), you do not need a degree (in any field) to get a job in the games industry. I've personally hired many people over the years, some had degree's some did not. The thing they did have was an excellent portfolio, generally done in their spare time (whether that was after work or after classes). You do not need to have invented 'the next big thing' to make up for not having that piece of paper - just an excellent collection of work as does anyone else.

If I had two portfolios of exactly the same quality in front of me, then University would be a factor, simply because it brought something to the table, no other reason. I would never hire someone with a first class degree without a portfolio of work...

Even now, with the ever increasing cost of further education (in both the UK and the US - I couldn't say much for other countries), advocating University would not always be on the agenda. Sometimes you simply cannot justify the cost.

I have been writing about game based courses recently on my blog, which may be of interest
C# and XNA - Are Universities Teaching The Wrong Things?
A Jack Of All Trades...

Having said that...

Some companies do require a degree for you to even apply, but even in those companies (that I know of) there is a lot of discussion about whether this should continue.

Also, the games industry may not be for you in the long run, having a degree in a more 'traditional' subject will be of more benefit to you, having a degree in a games related subject will not - and you are quoting a hell of a lot of money for the privilege. Also, as Oluseyi excellently put regarding technical knowledge "if that's the only reason why you're going to college, you're a fool". University is about much more than education and can make you a much stronger person, but then so can doing many other things that probably cost a whole lot less.

University will also teach you a lot of things you will believe to be pointless and irrelevant to your chosen career path, but you will be amazed how often, a few years down the line, you say "Hey, I remember something like this being taught back in class..."

Personally, if you can afford it and you think it is for you, I would recommend going to University, but taking a more traditional course rather than a game related one. If it is not for you, then don't. That's the beauty of it all, the only person who has the right answer is you.

And so people know where I am coming from, I have a Software Engineering degree from the University Of Manchester, UK.