Hi everyone, First of all this idea is copied from the Gameaudioforum to discuss a bit about the "need" for innovation in game soundtracks. So no credit goes to me for bringing this up. The link to the topic on gameaudioforum is: http://www.gameaudioforum.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=535&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 I suggest reading it if you have some spare time, since it has some awesome comments, ideas and a lot of the suggestions and comments are posted from people who work in the game and film industry. My idea to continue it here is because here we are a group of starters, hobbyists, and pro's and also not only musicians will read this but also devs and programmers (hopefully :P) and we could learn from each other and see what we can achieve together. Ok, I will make a start. The game industry is growing like mad. It is getting bigger then the film industry according to some numbers and in the Western world there is hardly anyone who doesn’t have a computer and/or knows computer games. This can vary from playing Sims, Myst, FPS till mmo’s like World of Warcraft or Second life. The game industry is getting big business (18,9 billion deal between Vivendi and Activision for example) and it is bye bye for the world of “nerds”. Everyone is involved. Meaning that the industry is getting bigger and more commercial it also means that most of the time innovation gets lost. Publisher and developers want to have their project sold to a big audience so most of the time the risks of innovation are avoided. The amount of sequels jumping the market is insane (in my opinion). As composers and sound designers we will also suffer this trend. Of course hardly any of us is working on projects involving millions of dollars, but I think this is a sort of water ripple effect that will reach us all eventually in some sort of way. What I would like to discuss here is if this will be a true scenario and should we or shouldn’t we give it too much attention. What path will we take in the future game music and since most of us will be or going to be part of it, should we jump on it or should we prepare ourselves. For years I have worked as avant-garde composer in the modern classical music scene in Europe and that was just all about renewing music for the sake of renewing. This is also not good and I notice that I write the last couple of month’s finally again relatively tonal music, but as for myself I would try to find a good balance in innovation in using the technology and bringing modern 20th and 21st century composing techniques into the game music. I think personally that we could bring game music a lot further then it is now. The use of different composing techniques, adaptive music, better use of technology etc. The most important task in my opinion is to see how the public would react and how we can achieve that if we want to bring it further how we can bring the public with us.

Define "innovation."

In most cases, it is confused with novelty. Somethings don't see much "innovation" because they're good - very good - the way they are. Have you identified specific thematic, emotional shortcomings in game music? Is this just knee-jerk reaction by people who aren't the best and afraid that they'll be eclipsed by the big names since there's more money in games now?

*shrug* I don't see it. Maybe I should read the original thread.

Innovation is for me choosing a path of composing that both gives progress to the product that it is written for and that will bring music to a new level so that the devellopment will not become static or fall back.
With this I mean that you won't hear the same stereotype sort of music all over again, but a soundtrack that is a new well thought idea what will interact precisely with the product it is composed for.

I think game music at the moment is very good. A lot of composers are making nice and original music and it is not yet influenced (in my opinion) by so much clichés as for example the Hollywood film composers are.

Of course innovation doesn´t seems to be needed when things are good or even very good or close to a genius find. I think for the sake of keeping a high standard product we have to keep thinking of it. What happens when something is very good is that it will be copied (nothing wrong with that) in often a lesser way. We have to learn what is good in that particular writing and bring that into a new composition with extra elements so we bring the progress further.

To be honest I don't think it is a knee-jerk so that they will just turn the opposite to scream loudly that the established composers arent doing a good job to hide their (or mine :P) lesser capabilities and pick in this way a little bit of the big commerce around games.

Quote: Original post by Jaap1978
Innovation is for me choosing a path of composing that both gives progress to the product that it is written for and that will bring music to a new level so that the devellopment will not become static or fall back.

Theoryspeak.

Quote: With this I mean that you won't hear the same stereotype sort of music all over again, but a soundtrack that is a new well thought idea what will interact precisely with the product it is composed for.

Perhaps, then, the problem is a lack of innovation in the products the music is being composed for? If you have twenty WWII shooters over a three-year span, why would they sound remarkably different? If you have seven street course racing games, sponsored by energy drink companies and festooned with "extreme lifestyle" brand advertising, it is only logical that their soundtracks are nigh on interchangeable.

What, really, is being said? Game music needs to continue to push frontiers and challenge itself. Game music should avoid getting stale and repetitive. Game music needs to emphasize and add to the game it is produced for. Basically, game music should be professional game music. Don't know that we need to crack out the "innovation" rhetoric over something that obvious.

True it is indeed theoryspeak and very easily said from my side since I don't work at a big budget AAA game and therefore it makes it for me different and maybe in some way "easier" to judge this. However I would like to think about what I would do if I was working on a big project and in some way I am trying to prepare myself with composing to make up a standard for my myself in the way I compose so I can "live" to this idea.

Of course if you are facing projects that you have to take to earn your money and it is lacking "innovation" and is part of the so called thirteen in a dozen products then even I think it is important to keep in mind that you still can innovate the style that is maybe the standard for this type of product or your own style that you tend to use.
That it should be professional it without question for me, though I think this is part of it as well. With innovation I am not only reffering to composing styles and renewing yourself or the music, but as well as the technology used.
I think a good example for this is for example Hans Zimmer. Nothing special about his composition technique. He has a very good style that is easily reckognised, but he lifted the use of sampling to a very high level in when creating his projects. This is what made that he is who he is and what he can deliver.

Innovation is mostly what you have learned from the past and how you integrate that in the product you are creating now without just duplicating a style or idea. You can't just decide to build a new Ferari because you don't like the old one. You have see what is working and what not and what can be improved to make a better and newer product. To do this you have to understand fully what you are improving.
To give maybe also an example for this is the American composer John Adams. He found a very good way to make music sound very nice and yet use a lot of different techniques from the 20th century and worked it out in a way it wasnt done before and what gave him his own style.

Hi,


Interesting discussion, or possible discussion since there's only one person who answered. I agree particularly with your points about employing technology which would be better suited to the kind of next-generation titles being commercially produced (should that technology exist is an entirely different discussion i.e. choir thread); however I'm not entirely sure about your definition of 'innovation'.

If you mean innovation in compositional techniques, or rather, changing the existing praxis in creating music to a scene (film and games are somewhat similar) I don't see how the games could benefit. It wouldn't do much good to use aleatory techniques for a racing game for example. In my opinion it would lead nowhere since players are expecting the fast paced electronic music you instantly associate with those types of games. Likewise, using tone row for an rpg title since everyone is expecting an orchestral score (or thereabouts). I don't even think that most of the well-payed big-guns in Hollywood have done anything so innovative in music in respect to what has been done in the 18th and 19th centuries. The melodies are the same, so are the orchestral effects (where orchestras are used) it is just the technology that changes (in the case of Hans Zimmer for example). People like Jeremy Soule, for instance, have managed to create music which is memorable, built on simplicity and not straying from traditional compositional methods.

Innovation in music generally means making a song that is unique. I do agree in that many of the current game soundtracks all sound like they are off of an assembly line. However, there are some games that I think stick out among others. Some game music seems to be made without regard of composition. Mastering and voices seem to be more important than the actual song now. A good example of innovation in music is the unique music in Twilight Princess. It stands out from the rest the way I see it.