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How much $ would you charge?

Started by August 13, 2007 11:26 PM
12 comments, last by swhite 17 years, 2 months ago
Quote: Original post by Muzo72
Quote: Original post by Sean R Beeson
Per minute in games isn't so bad if you can demand the high per minute rates( in the mid 1000's and up) and get 25-40% of it upfront but that can be a rarity. The nice thing about per minute rates is that you can keep "your rate" even if the music projects change, however as Muzo excellently pointed out, this can be a double edged sword.


Double-edged, indeed. The all-in, per-minute pricing may work sometimes on small projects with simple music requirements. However, it doesn't scale well to larger projects. Just for the sake of discussion and education, let's look at the math and see how it shakes out if the developer wants a live "Hollywood" orchestra sound. (I'm going to round numbers for simplicity.)

$1500/min X 60 min of music = $90,000 total budget. At first glance this seems like pretty good money.

Let's assume that the average tempo of the music is 100 bpm. That's not too fast and would give us about 1500 measures of 4/4 time.

Let's further assume that you hire a good orchestrator and he has agreed to work for the new American Federation of Musicians or AFM minimum videogame buyout rate. (Note that many orchestrators charge over minimum scale.) Under the current contract, this means the developer will not have to pay any "back-end" royalties, residuals, or re-use fees to the musicians. The developer can own the music and use it however they like. Developers LOVE that idea.

Let's also assume that we need a moderate size orchestra plus choir. Lots of developers love an epic sound so we'll try to give them something close. That would mean the orchestrator will be dealing with about 35 lines or so of orchestration. Given 1500 measures and 35 lines, the orchestration bill would come in around $25k, maybe $30k depending on the situation. So orchestration alone will eat up most if not all of the upfront money.
Let's assume you got a 40-piece orchestra in the USA. The orchestra might be something like this:

1 flute
1 oboe
1 clarinet
1 bassoon

3 tpts
4 horns
3 tbns
(Deveolpers seem to like full brass sections, but we'll forego the tuba. Plus our orchestrator has some ideas for giving the bottom end a bit more punch.)

12 - 16 violins (exact number will depend on the composition)
4 - 6 violas
4 - 6 cellos
2 basses

We'll have to watch the balance of the sections with this lineup, but thankfully we've hired a good orchestrator. We'll also have to lay the percussion down in a sequencer and bring it to the session as pre-lay. If we want the percussion live, we could probably lose a few strings, but we then might want to record the strings separately. (Again, our orchestrator is good so he can advise us on this.) Plus, we'd have to think about cartage costs for the percussion instruments.

Given the above list, the musician costs for one day (two 3-hour sessions, no overtime, no doubling, and not including cartage), would be about $25k. Add this to the orchestration bill and now over 60% of your money is gone. We still have to pay the engineer, music copyists, and the studio rental, and this is only the first day of recording. No orchestra is going to finish 60 minutes of music in a single day at an acceptable level of quality. However, by the end of the second day, it's likely all your money would be gone.

Even if we bump the per minute rate up to $2000, the total is still only $120k. That epic live choir is still looking unlikely if the composer wants to make any money at all.

If the per minute rate jumps to $2500 the total would be $150k. You'd then have a fighting chance at getting it all done (maybe without the choir) without losing money, but you'd never make a living that way.

You can see how all-in per minute composing fees quickly break down on large-budget projects. This is why there is a shift to a creative fee for the composer while the developer picks up the other expenses. That way, if the developer wants a big, Hollywood orchestra, the composer can say, "No problem, it's your money. I can give you what you want!" This is more akin to the Hollywood film scoring model of budgeting.

I've seen more than one composer fall into the per-minute of music trap and think they could deliver a live "Hollywood" score. They always end up having to compromise somewhere. Usually it means hiring a hack orchestrator or the composer orchestrates himself if there is time (often there is not time). They also end up running off to far parts of the world to record with orchestras that have little contemporary recording experience at locations with weak studio infrastructure. It's the only way the composer can do the job and still pay the mortgage, and keep the kids fed and clothed.

I deal with this stuff for a living, and the numbers here feel about right. But please remember that these numbers are hypothetical. Every project is different. I don't want to get an angry, expletive-laden message from someone saying "I got my first big game contract and followed the numbers in your GameDev post. It was a disaster!" That's why you hire experienced professionals. [wink]


So as long as the developer cover the costs of the orchestra, orchestrator, mixing, ect., you are good :) hehe But then again, if you can rake down $1500 a minute on a synthesized score, that isn't too shabby :)

Great post Muzo, really provides insight into creative fees and $PM payment schemes.
Sean Beeson | Composer for Media
www.seanbeeson.com
That was a hard question!!! Depends how long work hours is going into 1 song!

Example working 40 hours with one song could cost about 500euros (600dollars)
the song can be 2minutes to 15minutes long...

But as an Semi-amateur, I couldnt take more than 200euros (or less) per song!
"How can you hear what is right or wrong?..."
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Original post by Muzo72
I've always hated the per-minute rate. I don't think it's a good system creatively. It's not good for the developer because they shouldn't be deciding where to put music just based on minutes. It's not a good system for the composer because a flat, per minute rate doesn't include the difficulty in producing the music, and the project could drag on forever.

I agree with Muzo72 that the per-minute rate idea is bunk. I generally charge a flat rate for said looping theme between 1-2 minutes, which is essentially a fee for my skill at writing and programming. In the event that that the developer wants something with live performers, I will also charge for the performer's time, the engineer's time, and my time as the session director.
Matthew Myerswww.2eastmusic.comwww.animesongwritingworkshop.com
Good question and good answers. It has really helped me out a lot as well.

Stephen
www.stephenwhitemusic.com

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