I've just come to realise something today everyone should be aware of. I've just sent two game designs to lionhead one of which is exceptional in nearly every way and the other would also be very successful. The response I got was completely uninspiring. Rather than address that I was hoping to be a designer, they referred to their current open positions artist, scriptor, and said that I didn't currently have the skills for those. Which is nonsense - I could script in my sleep I just didn't make a big deal out of that in the portfolio I sent. Heres the realisation - big companies aren't looking for people to help design their games. So if you are dreaming of joining a big company to design games - Forget it. They are the ones who will design the games and they aren't interested in you or your ideas. they just want a constant stream of apriring young people to do all the crap work for them. And when you get tired of it theres thousands more to come in after you. So - You have to do it yourself. So when you get done making your game here, either join a smaller company where you will have an influence or start your own. F***ing B**tards! Anyone got any different views or had a different experience? [Edited by - thelovegoose on June 27, 2007 8:56:57 AM]

You almost sound surprised.

Forget about jumping straight into a game design job, it pretty much never happens. Lionhead are one of the few companies that do offer game designer 'apprenticeships' but only one at a time, and they come up very rarely. Pretty much the only realistic routes into game design are by getting your foot in the door in a different game dev role (e.g scripting) and moving into the design team from there, or creating your own startup.

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Original post by thelovegoose I've just come to realise something today everyone should be aware of. I've just sent two game designs to lionhead one of which is exceptional in nearly every way and the other would also be very successful.

How do you know this? How are you able to judge the successfulness of an idea that hasn't been tried? And more to the point, why do you think you are *better* at making this judgment than, say, professionals from Lionhead, who has more than a few years of industry experience?
Everyone has ideas. Plenty of them. Believe it or not, your ideas are nothing special. Not until they've been made into a game. Until then, they're worth precisely $0.

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The response I got was completely uninspiring. Rather than address that I was hoping to be a designer, they referred to their current open positions artist, scriptor, and said that I didn't currently have the skills for those. Which is nonsense - I could script in my sleep I just didn't make a big deal out of that in the portfolio I sent.

And how exactly were they supposed to know this? Perhaps, if you wanted them to know that you could script in your sleep, you should have added that to your portfolio?

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Heres the realisation - big companies aren't looking for people to help design their games. So if you are dreaming of joining a big company to design games - Forget it.

What, does this surprise you? It's the first thing people tell you if you ask here. It's the first thing you'll read in *every* article about how to break into the games industry. It's the first answer you'll get from every industry professional. (Or more specifically, read lesson #1 (yes, #1. The very first, most commonly asked, most basic) here
So I assume the realisation is "I should have done my homework"... [wink]

Does Peter Molyneux strike you as a person who's completely unable to come up with ideas for games? Why should he invest X millions into *your* ideas, when he's clearly got plenty himself?
Where's the business sense in that? Why should Lionhead, when they have one of the most famous game designers in the world, hire a completely unknown guy to replace him?

Generally people wanting to get into a Game Design career have to work their way into the designing role through doing grunt work (i.e. Testing, meanial scripting, etc...) within the company. Game design jobs (especially places like Lionhead) are very difficult to get because everyone has ideas. It's the people we are able to translate them best into a game (whether it be through a previous Professional experience/flash games/Mods/indie games/something else) that will more than likely get them a job.

Unfortunately everyone *thinks* their ideas are great, but in the eyes of the listener they may not like them. The listener would also have to be realistic about the commercial potential (remember game development is a business) when compared against the rising game development costs (i.e. $4-$5+ Million vs. $500k sales).

Game design jobs are very hard job to achieve, but the payoff can be great. Try applying for something else in the company (i.e. qa tester) then move up. Remember to show every game you've worked on (no matter how crap they look now) and keep your spirits up. Large and small companies are always looking for talented people, but in the end you have to present yourself the right way (in their eyes to be looked at).

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F***ing B**tards!

You're kidding, right? Nine out of ten places, you never would have even heard back from them. They would have tossed your submission in the trash and never thought about you again. (Not because they don't recognize your innate talent, but because it is an innate talent which is relatively common.) Instead, despite having absolutely no use for your talents, they were kind enough to explain the situation to you. And for that, you insult them? Get over your entitlement complex.

Oh, and the fact that you consider all non-design jobs to be "the crap work" suggests that you will not find success in this industry. At the very least, that level of contempt for the people who actually make the games is something I'd leave off the resume if I were you.

Gosh, you said two interesting things. One was kind of silly, but the other was something I think should be stressed. I agree that if you are really passionate about designing games, trying to work for a company may be the worst way to try to do that. You will have to do grunt work for a long time and work through their ladder. And even when you get into a designer position, you don't really have that much control over the ideas. You're forced to work with what the company gives you.

If you're really passionate about designing a game idea. The best way to do it is just be a hobbyist. Then you at least have absolute control over your vision.

If it makes you feel better, they probably shredded your design doc on sight. Large companies have policies like that.

No one just becomes a game designer. You have to be in the industry/company to give input into a game.

Hey on the the side note host your DD in pdf format. Would be cool to see the professional quality DD you created. Or you can create the games yourself which I highly recommend. Programming is a lot of fun. :)

Okay, all good points. I was expecting a bit much, but then I think its okay to expect my designs to be read - they asked me to send them to them!
But what I realised is that they were checking me out - not to be a designer, but another position, perhaps scripter, a job where the only creativity you get to exercise is something thats insignificant to the game. So I don't mean its crap, but a bit demoralising when you dream of making your own games.
I am positive that big game companies are not interested in having new talented designers come in. Which is unlike most other industries. Other industries are crying out for talented guys to come in and create great stuff for them. The problem with the top people at games companies is they see themselves as the creative power and it seems they arent willing to share it, if that means they ignore talented people and some great ideas and designs then so be it.

Finally, unfortunately I cant share the very good design here yet. I've still got a lot more companies to approach that might have a different attitude.
I am considering trying to make it though. If you can forgive what you might see as arrogance, (I'd call it belief!) on my part then maybe it could be made here.

Also, I have to argue this:

Believe it or not, your ideas are nothing special. Not until they've been made into a game. Until then, they're worth precisely $0.

I don't know where this philosophy has come from but it seems be something thats found all over this forum. I'm saying nothing about my ideas but imagine if a few years ago, someone had the design for the sims - would that be nothing special?
Is that idea worth nothing? Of course not its worth millions! The problem is that it needs to be made, and that it could be stolen. But that idea, all by itself was worth millions.

Well, since you're obviously much nicer than Lionhead, and clearly not a b**tard, would you buy my game idea for a million dollars and make it for me? Trust me, it's the best game idea in the world.