Problem with the Precisions is that you pay for Quadro graphics cards, which aren't any better than the GeForce line for gaming and desktop graphics, and are a lot more expensive. What they do do well is anti-aliased lines in OpenGL, and special driver improvements for certain CAD and DCC applications -- chances are, you don't care.

You can always buy the Quadro NVS, though (which is a very low end card) and throw it away, and replace with a new graphics card from somewhere online. You have this same problem with Apple, by the way, as they have no gaming-level NVIDIA card; only the low-end 7300, and the too expensive Quadro. For the mid level, they have the ATI X1900, which I don't feel is a good idea. And, with Apple, it's not necessarily to replace the graphics card (depending on drivers).

Hence, if bang-for-buck is important, try Linux or Windows, and (ideally) screw the box together yourself :-)

Quote: Original post by hplus0603

Quote: From what research I have done, the Mac is competitvly priced for what it offers.

Compare that to this:

Dell XPS 710

With a Core 2 Duo E6700, 4 GB of RAM, two 250 GB SATA drives, a GeForce 7900 GS and a 24 inch digital flat panel, it's $2,900. That includes Windows Vista (although you can easily run some Linux or BSD variant on it if you want UNIX).

No support with octocore with that though so if you want the most bang for your buck MacPro really is the way to go. Nothing else is even in the same class unless you start talking serverclass dual socket quadcore capable motherboards which will jack up the price anyways.
1. Yes
2. Check pricewatch.com. The fact that macpro's use FB-DIMM will make upgrading pretty expensive since FB-DIMM is pretty expensive last time I checked
3. Nope not since bootcamp came out anyways since you can pretty much have your cake and eat it too now that you can dualboot a mac and it uses intel cpu's.
4. Make sure you get octocore capable version so you have maximum upgradability and it's sure to last you for years to come. Hell I still have an old opteron 240 I built when they first came out that is still pretty competitive with most people's computers I come across.

p.s. Just remeber that when you buy a Mac it's an experience not just another DELL. It's like buying luxury car vs your average car you'll notice the extra touches. I don't know why Dell even has a good rep since all the Dell's I've worked on fixed lately are slow as molasses probably since they skim on memory selling winxp with 512MB ram to all those customers that don't know any better.

Quote: Original post by hplus0603
Problem with the Precisions is that you pay for Quadro graphics cards, which aren't any better than the GeForce line for gaming and desktop graphics, and are a lot more expensive. What they do do well is anti-aliased lines in OpenGL, and special driver improvements for certain CAD and DCC applications -- chances are, you don't care.

You are right, I don't really care.

Quote:
You can always buy the Quadro NVS, though (which is a very low end card) and throw it away, and replace with a new graphics card from somewhere online. You have this same problem with Apple, by the way, as they have no gaming-level NVIDIA card; only the low-end 7300, and the too expensive Quadro. For the mid level, they have the ATI X1900, which I don't feel is a good idea. And, with Apple, it's not necessarily to replace the graphics card (depending on drivers).

Hence, if bang-for-buck is important, try Linux or Windows, and (ideally) screw the box together yourself :-)

If I do purchase a Mac, I will go with the ATI card. This is the only real gripe I have about a Mac. Why can't they offer a wider selection of graphics options. I have not looked into at all, but my suspicion is these are the only cards available for the mac (Retail level). Then again the mac is not a gaming machine. If I were set on bying a box that could play the latest games with full graphics, then I would not even consider a Mac.

The 1 major thing I realy want is the dual processor support. It would be a bonus if I can also drop in quad core chips when they drop in price. My assumption is, and from what MARS_999 stated, I can do this with the current Mac. I also assume this is possible with the Precisions.

Thanks everyone for all the feed back.

I wouldn't really worry about the quad core as their performance does not match their price.

As far as Mac being competitive on price I would say those claims are dubious unless you consider their OS worth an extra $1000. They are decent computers but not worth the price for someone on a tight budget. If your school does a lot of work with Visual Studio you will have to buy parallels and Vista as well. Depends on your school and the professors themselves.

Mac hardware is good, but not perfect. I have a few friend who use Mac pros. Beware they run hot so they aren't so great to put on your lap.

Quote: Original post by stake
I wouldn't really worry about the quad core as their performance does not match their price.

As far as Mac being competitive on price I would say those claims are dubious unless you consider their OS worth an extra $1000. They are decent computers but not worth the price for someone on a tight budget. If your school does a lot of work with Visual Studio you will have to buy parallels and Vista as well. Depends on your school and the professors themselves.

Mac hardware is good, but not perfect. I have a few friend who use Mac pros. Beware they run hot so they aren't so great to put on your lap.

And if you have any faith in AMD and their quadcores with L3 cache coming out later this year the prices for Intel quadcores are sure to plummet making the Intel Octocore yesterday's news.

Quote: Original post by stake
Mac hardware is good, but not perfect. I have a few friend who use Mac pros. Beware they run hot so they aren't so great to put on your lap.

A Mac Pro is a stationary computer, you wouldn't put it on your lap even if it was body temperatured [wink]

smc: You do know that there's a 10% student's discount at Apple hardware? Many students don't know about this.

a.) get a Mac Pro
b.) get Parallels (or, if you can wait, VMware Fusion)
c.) install Windows XP/Vista *and* Linux as guest OSes
d.) ...
e.) profit!

For me, I'm going to get both a new PC workstation and a Mac Pro. The Mac Pro is for me to install both CS3 (when it comes out) and Final Cut Studio. The PC is basically for XNA [smile]. If I had to choose just one machine, it'd still have to be the Mac Pro. For me.

Quote: I don't know why Dell even has a good rep

Because they sell hardware that actually works when you get it, and they support it after the sale (if you have a corporate account). And they don't charge Apple-like prices.

Regarding octo-core capability:
1) Those cores will all be fighting for the same memory bus, so going from 4 to 8 cores won't necessarily speed up even highly threaded apps, unless they are very cache friendly.
2) The budget was $3,000. That gets you the lowest-end MacPro, and not much else.

Well if you are excited about the quad cores you should check out tomshardware first. On most of the benchmarks the quad core is out performed by the top of the line dual core.

Regarding the Mac Pros, one thing you should keep in mind is that they don't use typical consumer hardware. Case in point is the Xeon processors and use of FB-DIMMs. Both come at a premium price compared to standard Core 2 Duos or DDR II DIMMs. Both are readily available on the internet, just be prepared for the premium prices and the fact that you can't walk into the local computer shop, or even a place like Frys, and find replacements.

You can also use Boot-camp to dual-boot into Windows natively, which will come in handy if you need a windows session with, say, hardware accelerated graphics.