Quote: Original post by m4tthead
imo a story is nothing without memorable characters

You must not care much for crichton's stuff then.

I'd ask for a definition between "Shallow character" and "Deep character".

"Shallow character" is the surface charistics of a character - their aesthetic qualities. Mario's got shallow character.

"Deep character" is the psychological impact of the character - Why are they the way they are? What does it mean to be like them? What do they say about us? Mario has no deep character.

The quality of a plot is dependant on deep character. However, a story isn't just plot, for certain audiences and certain contexts, what can matter most about a story is how aestheticly pleasing it is, rather than its depth and meaning.

So your question SHOULD be: What is more important, shallow character or deep character? The answer is usually fairly obvious when examining the context and your goals for the story.

I don't think you can have memorable characters without an engaging story. Sorry to say but I think they go hand and hand. It's kind of a "weakest link" scenario. In my mind they are both equally important, and the lack of quality in one is going to affect the quality of the other.

Of course, you also have to take into account the audience and the type of game you are making. The expectations for a FPS versus an RPG are vastly different.

Assuming the story is locked in place, I think you are doing the best you can do by increasing the quality of your characters. Otherwise I would do all you can to change up the story because it is going to hold back your wonderful characters from being fully appreciated.

Quote: Original post by Chef Smallfry
One last bit...

I have a mid-sized cast of (what I assume to be) very interesting and original characters, and an essentially boring and cliche storyline.

Here's what I dont get.... if you know you have a boring cliche storyline... why put your interesting and original characters into it? Build your story line around your interesting characters... What would this person do in this situation, and how will the other characters react to that. Exploit character flaws and for the love of god dont have them "go on an adventure to destroy the ultimate evil!". I'd rather play a game where the characters go on an adventure and discover they are the ultimate evil, and a group of other heroes fights them at the end.

If you know your story is cliche, then dump that element. If you think its boring, then why would I want to play it?

I vote characters.
The story will always turn out great if the player enjoys the characters. You turn a normal picnic into a thrilling expedition if the player has a fondness for the characters you created.

However, just my opinion.

Just about any professional screenwriter will tell you character is king. Some other writers (such as novelists or short story writers) may disagree, but I'd argue that writing for a game is closest to writing for a film. But if you look at it, more often than not, you'll remember a film more for it's characters, rather than it's plot. The same goes for games. So yeah, don't ignore story, but I'd try to remember that character is king.

Quote: Original post by Sulphix
Just about any professional screenwriter will tell you character is king. Some other writers (such as novelists or short story writers) may disagree, but I'd argue that writing for a game is closest to writing for a film. But if you look at it, more often than not, you'll remember a film more for it's characters, rather than it's plot. The same goes for games. So yeah, don't ignore story, but I'd try to remember that character is king.

I agree with this, and chose the same answer. Why?

Well take Soap Operas for example. People love them. The story constantly changes, but for the most part, the characters stay the same. To an outsider, who's never watched the soap, the story seems dry and boring, because the person doesn't really know anything about the characters.

Quote: Original post by TechnoGoth


Plot is What happens.
Setting is where it happens.
Characters are who it happens to.
And the story is in the details.

Way to go TechnoGoth! That's all of storytelling in plain english. I'm glad you wrote that. Some people say there are only 7 basic plots, like Christopher Booker who wrote "The Seven Basic Plots" (ISBN-10:0826452094)

They are:

Overcoming the Monster
Rags to Riches
The Quest
Voyage and Return
Comedy
Tragedy
Rebirth


So if he's right, and that's everything, then it takes an equally concise set to fairly summarize storytelling. All else are details--but the devil is in them.


My two cents say, take the most cliche parts of the story, and put them backwards. I assume that's how they made Overlord, though I haven't played it and can't say for sure. It's a quick and dirty fix to any trite story.

Trying to steal something? Why not try to un-steal it? One of your kleptomanic sidekicks took the jewels while you were in the castle and replaced them with a fake, now you have to put the real ones back in secret, because nobody believes that he could have honestly walked up and swiped them as he says he did. Otherwise you could hand them over.

Trying to gain a kingdom? Maybe the hero has fallen in love and is trying to un-gain his kingdom so he can run off and live in the woods with his honey.

Hey, it amuses me.

Quote: Original post by TechnoGoth
To be honest you can't have one without the other.

Plot is What happens.
Setting is where it happens.
Characters are who it happens to.
And the story is in the details.

Your characters are only as interesting as the interactions that occur between them and the world arounding that happen during the story. Even if you create the most interesting charactes of all time how will anyone know if the story doesn't reflect that?

I agree with this guy. Both are essential; there can be no story if there are no definite characters. For example, who's going to play a game with no real main characters and everyone known as that guy or this girl. Even if you just name them, without definite personality or defining traits that is exactly what they are: that person.
On the other hand, no one wants to play a game involving in-depth characters if there's no story to revolve around them or the rest of the game. Think about it. If Final Fantasy VII kept all the characters and gotten rid of the story, would anybody really want to play it? Same goes with any game like that. YOu can have the best character development in that game, but without a solid story to support it, the game is worthless.

Story? What Story? Ahahahaha!