I just want to put it out there that religion can be a topic that pushes peoples' buttons fairly easily. It comes up often enough, and people can get pretty righteous regardless of whether they're religious or not. In this thread, the flaming has been pretty gentle, but I think the OP has expressed pretty clearly what his intentions are. Although there are plenty of rotten things in the bible, I think the focus is going to be on the positive aspects of the religion, so let's try to keep it constructive.

I'd like to thank everyone for their responses, and also for the great deal of civility that this thread has managed to maintain, given its somewhat controversial topic.

It seems to have generally been agreed that faith as a main game component has a negative effect. Whether this is its meaning, or making people uncomfortable, using it as such would be a decision that needs to be made with great discretion. Arithma's idea of "game over" being seeing which afterlife the player ends up in is definitely something that needs to be followed up on.

(I'm purposely avoiding the subject of religious wars here, to avoid a any flame wars, though I think it might be an idea to set a game in such as society, where the player must exercise religious balance in the choices he/she makes)

How issch and erissian mentioned teaching Christian values in a game, sounds like an interesting concept. I have played through Fable on multiple accounts (first Good, then Evil just to see what it was like) and find this might be a good inspiration for my current project. EDIT: I would like to find some way to encourage player's to pursue good without attempting to be preachy at the same time. Fable did this very well using in-game effects, such as guards chasing you, etc. Causing you to fail the game because you stole an apple would be ridiculous.

--SIDE NOTE--
In regards to the statement about mana/aura in my current game, I'm sort of stuck in the same situation Tolkein was in Lord of the Rings, when "magic" wasn't exactly a term he likes. Honestly, I don't like the terms mana, magic, or aura myself. Perhaps you could help suggest a more appropriate word from this description (an in-depth explanation of the concept used in my game is long). It is not a sort of spiritual power derived from the world or the self. It's rather committed using technology that is understood as "magic" by the common people (someone seeing a lighter in the 1200s would call you a heretic). Imagine a swiss-army knife piece of technology that has the ability to heal wounds, create fire, etc. This technology is powered by gems (akin possibly to sun stones from dinatopia, though they do not recharge and simply break down). Towns in the game use the technology as a tool, such as to alter time and grow a field of crops to feed the town in a day.

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Original post by erissian Well, I'll start by saying that I'm not on the team, but loudmouths like me are a consequence of public forums.

Hehehe! And, they say honesty is the best policy. :)

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Original post by erissian With that out of the way, it's my opinion that if you make religion a play mechanic, it's going to be trivialized. Take it in the context of a means to an end. Is your faith a means to an end, or is it an end in itself? I think that, and I could be way off, that the point of your rules, customs, and rituals aren't just to reserve your seat in heaven, but exist to make you a better person. Worthy of heaven, if you will.

You probably need to start with your target age range, and not try to bore them. You also have to consider the genre; an FPS probably isn't going to as easy to adapt to a Christian game as a RTS or adventure game would be.

There are plenty of examples to draw from, the Bible, Christian musicians. Most Christian rock bands seem to emulate popular music, with a positive direction.

The Old Testament is full of stories (and violence).

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Original post by mako_5 Considering the post about the game Left Behind: Eternal Forces (since closed), I was wondering what Christian developers do now.

The same as red-haired developers, or chinese developers, or overweight developers, or developers who drive a ford, or developers who hate chicken.

Make good games.

That is, unless you want to preach rather than make good games.
Your choice. But you should decide which you're aiming for. If making good games is your priority, then you may have to occasionally *not* try to indoctrinate the player with *your* religion.

If you want to play a modern missionary, then game design and gameplay may have to suffer.

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Violence is where Churches have different opinions, such as what types are appropriate, if at all. Should we really be printing "made by Christians" on a violent game, or just leave that label quietly behind the scenes?

What purpose would such a label serve? Does it make the game better? Highly doubtful. So if that is your goal, don't bother.
However, It may make it more clear to players that you're on some wild crusade against the heathens (which may be considered a bad thing), or it may remind them that "Oh yes, all the stuff that happens in this game are in accordance with Christian values, and therefore representative of the religion, so if I like the game, I'd probably like the religion as well" (which may be considered a good thing).

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Is there anyone who has guidance on what to do, or has any related tales of what they've come up with about this?

Isn't it God's job to offer guidance? Us poor atheists usually have to think for ourselves... [wink]

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@ApochPiQ: Good point. But if you want to make a game as a hobby/job, why not make it teach good values while you are at it? I agree that we ought to be more publicly spiritual, and probably less trying to get them to convert. It's better to show the love of Jesus to one person, than to get ten people to go to church half-heartedly.

So why *do* you want to use your game to try to get people to convert? Why not just make a game as a game developer who likes good games, rather than as a Christian on a mission?
Try it, it may improve the quality of the final game. Even if the "propaganda value" of the game decreases sharply. Again, it comes down to what your goal is.

Personally I could imagine a lot of games revolving around Christianity (or other religions). But only because religion makes for good stories. Not because it's something I want to brainwash people (Oh all right, "teach good values") with. And the church certainly wouldn't be portrayed as perfect or all-out "good" (because that doesn't make for good stories, just like an entity being "the ultimate and absolute personification of evil" doesn't make for good stories)

If you're going to make a 'Christian' game, I think it would be best if you didn't just take some genre and add unsubtle Christian undertones or overtones. That stuff is horrible.

Let's take a look at Tolkien and Lewis: I'm a big fan of Tolkien and his world - Christianity doesn't even come into it. Sure, it could be interpreted as some great big Christian allegory radda radda ra - but that is only an interpretation, and there are so many more equally likely interpretations that I don't give a damn about that one. So while Tolkien was a Christian, and while his works are more than likely influenced by this worldview - I would not call his creations 'Christian' works.

CS Lewis, on the other hand, is a pretentious git who can't resist thwacking the reader with terrible and unsubtle allegory. I cringed when I read the 'crucifixion' bit. The Narnia books are Christian because any other interpretation that could be offered is stretching things a very great deal. It's annoying, and it's painful to read.

Your game - if it aspires to be anything like art - should reflect your worldview anyway. There's really no need to alienate those who don't share your particular version of reality by jamming it down their necks.

Of course, as an atheist, I'm probably not part of your target audience anyway...

(and to those who say that faith doesn't start wars but blame other factors, I recommend The End of Faith by Sam Harris. Skip the last two chapters if you do check it out though - they're pretty terrible and have very little relation to the rest of the book)

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Original post by Spoonbender The same as red-haired developers, or chinese developers, or overweight developers, or developers who drive a ford, or developers who hate chicken. Make good games. That is, unless you want to preach rather than make good games. Your choice. But you should decide which you're aiming for. If making good games is your priority, then you may have to occasionally *not* try to indoctrinate the player with *your* religion. If you want to play a modern missionary, then game design and gameplay may have to suffer.

I don't think many people get up everyday and say, "I'm going to do the absolute worst I can at my job."

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Original post by Spoonbender So why *do* you want to use your game to try to get people to convert? Why not just make a game as a game developer who likes good games, rather than as a Christian on a mission? Try it, it may improve the quality of the final game. Even if the "propaganda value" of the game decreases sharply. Again, it comes down to what your goal is.

The intention of this thread is to discuss what Christian developers are to do, given the failures of the Left Behind game. Creating games to try to convert people is not the necessary intention here. This thread is more to examine how our religious perspective impacts the games Christians should make. Not all Christians are out with the "baseball bat of conversion" ruthlessly hunting down atheists and others of different religions. People of faith do get out and do things "normal" people do.

Perhaps there is confusion in that "Christian games" has been thought to mean preachy and beating people over the head with religion. Please read the thread for details on the meaning that others have done so well to create ("games that happened to be made by Christians seems like the way Christians need to proceed").

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Original post by Spoonbender What purpose would such a label serve? Does it make the game better? Highly doubtful. So if that is your goal, don't bother. However, It may make it more clear to players that you're on some wild crusade against the heathens (which may be considered a bad thing), or it may remind them that "Oh yes, all the stuff that happens in this game are in accordance with Christian values, and therefore representative of the religion, so if I like the game, I'd probably like the religion as well" (which may be considered a good thing).

Servant of the Lord already addressed this question well. If you want to convert somebody, you life your life the best you can, and do excellent at what your craft is. Which then opens doors.

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Original post by Spoonbender Quote: Original post by mako_5 Considering the post about the game Left Behind: Eternal Forces (since closed), I was wondering what Christian developers do now. The same as red-haired developers, or chinese developers, or overweight developers, or developers who drive a ford, or developers who hate chicken. Make good games. That is, unless you want to preach rather than make good games. Your choice. But you should decide which you're aiming for. If making good games is your priority, then you may have to occasionally *not* try to indoctrinate the player with *your* religion.

I thought it was more about reconciling Christian values with the themes found in many games. Surely, GTA is a poor example of Christian values.

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What purpose would such a label serve?

I can think of a couple things:
1) It sells. A lot of "Christian music" is crap, but it sells fairly well due to the label.

2) It tells Christian parents "this is safe". Not just in the "your kids won't see violence" sort of way, but in the "the values encouraged by this are Christian". Veggie Tales does well, in part, because of this.

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Quote: @ApochPiQ: Good point. But if you want to make a game as a hobby/job, why not make it teach good values while you are at it? I agree that we ought to be more publicly spiritual, and probably less trying to get them to convert. It's better to show the love of Jesus to one person, than to get ten people to go to church half-heartedly. So why *do* you want to use your game to try to get people to convert? Why not just make a game as a game developer who likes good games, rather than as a Christian on a mission?

I see it something similar to the idea of replay value. The absolute best way to increase replay value is by making it a good game. If it's a good game, people will replay it. However, as was once pointed out to me, that's not what people mean when they ask how to improve replay value; what can they do above and beyond making a good game to specifically increase replay value.

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just like an entity being "the ultimate and absolute personification of evil" doesn't make for good stories

Worked well enough for Tolkien.

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Original post by ApochPiQ I think if Christians really care about influencing other people, they should quit dicking around with abstract media and straighten out their lives first. Put a fifty in the guy's coffee cup that sits outside your office. Grab that old lady that always sits around in the subway station and buy her lunch - yes, I know she smells funny. Meet people and do something for them personally. When Christians get around to actually affecting the world positively for a change (isn't that what we're supposed to be doing?) then maybe someone will care about what we have to say in a game. Until then, I'm not interested in hypocrisy and mixed messages. What people with their time do says far more about their values and beliefs than what they cram into a video game.

I think your statements are inappropriate to this thread..

As a christian the aim is not to preach to people that they should live like us, but like Christ.. As christians we already know that we are sinners and even God AND Jesus tell us the same thing.. We do our best to try to be better people in society because of our beliefs (unfortunately it doesn't always work and not all so-called christians are as seriously about "living" by there faith as they are in declaring/believing it..) so I don't think it's fair to generalise as you did so cynically..

I also don't think its fair to infer that because some christians maybe hypocritical that they have no right trying to develop video games with a message that they may not have the heart/sincerity/ability to follow.. I'd say these people have just as mucgh as a right as everyone else does to be fair..

Anyways back to the topic at hand..

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Original post by erissian Christian Tetris? (All crosses? :D)

Obviously this is just a mock up. I think it would be an extremely difficult game, though.

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Original post by Nathan Baum Quote: Original post by erissian Christian Tetris? (All crosses? :D) Obviously this is just a mock up. I think it would be an extremely difficult game, though.

You just made my day :)