Hi all During the last year I have created a Design Document for a game that I believe will be a very good one, this is a very big and full document (around 1000 pages), and although it is certain that some of the things there will be changed during full development, most of it is very much done. (I think) So, the question is: What now? It's a rather big game (MMORPG), so of course doing it without the financial backing of a distributor is not a valid option. Now, that, in turn, requires things such as a Demo (from what I keep hearing). Here lies the problem. I am not a graphical designer, and a rather mediocre programmer. Also, I don't have many friends who are good at either of those things. And if I want to hire people for the project, I need to have money to pay them... Catch 22. Also, I am not a businessman, and I do not know that much about things such as finding investors, or hiring workers. Bottom line: I don't really know what to do now. Any ideas anyone? Thanks in advance Shany Topper

Quote: Original post by shanytopper
Bottom line: I don't really know what to do now. Any ideas anyone?

Yes. Go make something else.

I'm not being flippant. An MMORPG is an expensive proposition, and you lack not only the money to finance its development but even the money to finance a moderate demonstration of your concepts and ability to lead a team effectively. Your MMORPG is not getting bankrolled. Not yet, at least.

So put your brilliant design on the back burner and go build your credibility doing other games, independently or working for a noted publisher/developer. Build relationships with industry pros who might consider collaborating with you on projects down the road. Build your personal wealth so that you can afford to finance at least some of your Dream Game™ yourself, because a financial commitment says a lot about how serious you are about the project.

Good luck.

But here lies another problam. I live in Israel, there are no game publishers/studios here. None.

So, I can't even build a reputation by working for one.

And lets assume I'll take the other option, of creating a smaller game first. well, sounds like a great idea (on the surface), but I still have the same problams as before (I still need money for graphics or some high quality programming..let alone actual publishing and selling).

Quote: Original post by shanytopper
I am not a graphical designer, and a rather mediocre programmer. Also, I don't have many friends who are good at either of those things. And if I want to hire people for the project, I need to have money to pay them... Catch 22.

Also, I am not a businessman, and I do not know that much about things such as finding investors, or hiring workers.

Bottom line: I don't really know what to do now. Any ideas anyone?

You have a list of the things you aren't good at so the next step is to start learning all those things.

No one is going to give you the many millions of dollars it costs to make a game when you have none of the skills/experience necessary. (Nor will anyone buy your idea from you). Put simply the games industry is very high risk even when you have years of experience and, because of this publishers do everything they can to eliminate any additional risk (even if it means making less creative games). People with no experience/skills rate high on the risk scale which is why no one will fund you.

Quote: Original post by shanytopperAnd lets assume I'll take the other option, of creating a smaller game first. well, sounds like a great idea (on the surface), but I still have the same problems as before (I still need money for graphics or some high quality programming..let alone actual publishing and selling).

I'm sorry but there are no easy solutions. You have to play the card you were dealt. If you need money to hire staff then start saving or start learning how to find/attract investors or rob a bank or win the lottery. If you can't get the money then learn to programme and do art and once you have learned start by making small games and work your way up. Alternatively you could try recruiting a hobby team to make games over the internet (see the Help Wanted forum) but be aware that the failure rate for such projects is very very high. Lastly you could move to a different country (I realise that isn't easy but none of the other options are either) in order to get a job at an existing developer.

I realise all these solutions will take many years but guess what? All the people in the games industry who are in the position of being able to get their games funded didn't start yesterday. They all spent 5-10 years breaking in and working their way up the ladder to get to that position. If you want to get there you will likely need to invest the same amount of time.

Good luck

LOL

So basicly, what you are saying to me is : Don't do it.

Lets see:

Living the county: Not an option due to "simple stuff" such as visas and so on.

Learning programing, graphical design, and management: Right...there is a good reason why most (if not all) of the games who got developed by a single person are very lame. One person can almost never do all of those things and still make them good. (and usually the game suffer from poor graphics, poor playability, and/or alot of bugs)..let alone actually sell the game (even downloaded games are highly protected against crackers...which cost money)

So, yeah, sure...prehaps some game developers have 5-10 years of expirience, but I refuse to belive that "either you get a job at a studio, or you must be superman"... I'm a game designer, Not a programer, a graphical designer, or a manager. And I can't see a reason why should I be anything else.

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So basicly, what you are saying to me is : Don't do it.

Yes. I fail to see any ambiguity in, for example, Oluseyi's statement.

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Learning programing, graphical design, and management: Right...there is a good reason why most (if not all) of the games who got developed by a single person are very lame. One person can almost never do all of those things and still make them good. (and usually the game suffer from poor graphics, poor playability, and/or alot of bugs)..let alone actually sell the game (even downloaded games are highly protected against crackers...which cost money)

This is simply not true. A single person is more than capable of producing a quality game. A small team, perhaps you and a friend or two, would be more than capable of producing a quality game (assuming you all possessed the requisite skills, of course).

Put your grand plans of a MMO on the back burner, and start smaller. Build yourself a small demo of a smaller game and try to get yourself some support -- you don't have to pay people, neccessarily, there are plenty of people who will work on hobby or indie games for free. Or learn the requisite skills yourself. The games industry isn't a free lunch where anybody who fancies themselves a "game designer" comes with a "game idea" and gets handed a check.

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but I refuse to belive that "either you get a job at a studio, or you must be superman"...I'm a game designer, Not a programer, a graphical designer, or a manager. And I can't see a reason why should I be anything else.

Tough. This is the way things are. Nobody will bankroll your MMORPG because you are a nobody to them, and you have no proven industry experience that would make them even think that your idea alone might be worth purchasing outright (if such transactions were even realistic; they're not -- ideas alone are worthless).

You don't have to be anything other than the designer, but then as Obscure says, you'll have to play those cards. A game designer has very little real "power" -- his word is not law, he does not command games to spring forth fully formed from his own flesh.

If you want to make games, either learn how yourself, and start practicing with smaller games, or join an existing project to get some experience, or build a demo and form a team to make a smaller game (not a MMO), et cetera.

You may refuse to believe all you want, but your beliefs don't shape the reality of the industry. Ignore the advice given in this thread if you want, but in the long run you'll have nothing to show for it but wasted time.

You know the old adage: "You have to walk before you can run," et cetera. The same thing applies here. You can't just come up with one idea and expect it to get turned into a high-grossing (or even profitable) game that easily. You need to start smaller, making smaller games. Yes, perhaps those games will have less-than-perfect art, or less-than-perfect underlying code, but so what? They give you experience. They give you products you can sell. If you truly are a good game designer, you'll have no problem designing within the constraints of "zero budget, crappy art" -- indeed, going back to the point that game designers not having absolute power: many professional game designers are faced with the very same constraits (not enough budget for that, not technically feasible on our target platforms, not enough time, nobody possesses the know-how and it would be too expensive to make a new hire, et cetera).

There are plenty of successful studios run by a single, or perhaps two or three, people (sometimes those other people are only hiring on a per-contract basis, as well, for example, a flat fee for some sprites). Three examples, off the top of my head:

• http://spiderwebsoftware.com/


• http://www.ambrosiasw.com


• http://www.edigames.com/

If you cant see it you will end like the titanic - they had the same problem ;-)

Dont be angry - i only tell what im thinking.

Next thing: to move to another country isnt difficult or hard if you realy
want to. I did it - without money - without nothing. At first i had to less
money to get something to eat for the hole month but now i have a job as
programer, a flat, a lot of good friends and so on. Its only a matter of
"do i realy want to reach something?"

Start with a hobby project. Not all one person games are lame - if you think so
then you have absolutely no idea of the indi scene!

Stop dreaming and start to work and you will (maybe) reach your goal but dont
think, that the games industry is only waiting for you.

Think: What do you offer to any game studio? Your only 'skill' is as a game designer, and you haven't even proven that your game designs are any good. Ideas are two a penny, dedicated programmers with good ideas less so. Try making a small game with one of your game mechanics ideas and find out if it's actually any good and build from there. It's hard work, but you're not going to get other people to make your dreams into reality for free.

OK, prehaps you misunderstood my meaning.

I have no problam with puting the MMO in the drawer for now...I habe plenty of other game designs (the MMO is just the fullest of them).

Now, all of them will require a financial backing of sort... most of them will need it for the demo itself, and the rest will need it later (but those are the ones I am most skeptic about them as games at all)

Why will they need it for the demo, you ask? becouse, as I said before, I am not a graphical designer, and I don't know any. (actually, I know one who hates computer games..:P)

(just for the record, I can't even learn graphical design... I am disgraphic, and therefore even with the best teacher and software my graphical disigns will just suck...)

So, the question is...What should I do now? (note, as before, that there are no game studios in israel that I could work for...So I can't build my name that way)

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OK, prehaps you misunderstood my meaning.

Perhaps you misunderstood the responses.

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Now, all of them will require a financial backing of sort...

Then either come up with games that don't require financial backing (it is very possible, as already mentioned), or plan to back the projects out of pocket (this is also very doable, you can negotiate fair prices with artists for contract work).

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(just for the record, I can't even learn graphical design... I am disgraphic, and therefore even with the best teacher and software my graphical disigns will just suck...)

I don't believe this. "Can't" means "won't."

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So, the question is...What should I do now? (note, as before, that there are no game studios in israel that I could work for...So I can't build my name that way)

You keep asking the same question in different ways, hoping you'll get different answers. You won't. If there are no studios you can get a job with, either move, or don't work for a studio.

Games do not require financial backing to develop, nor do you need to be running a "company" to do so. Program yourself a simple demo, or mock one up in some kind of tool you know how to use. Post on the Help Wanted forums to assemble a team of hobby developers. Be creative. That's what "game designers" do, after all.