I've always been a fan of having equipment that grows with you, instead of finding new equipment. In an MMO, or even a regular RPG part of the problem that lies with that idea is the loot cycle. Where's the fun if you dont continuously get better equipment? So I've been tinkering with an equipment idea that would allow players to keep equipment for a long time, growing with them as they level, and at the same time, still be able to get loot, and occasionally upgrade weapons. My biggest problem with the idea is that no matter how hard I try, it's basically a rip off of the materia system of FF7. If you have any ideas on improving or seperating the system feel free to ask. The basic concept is this: Equipment (helmets, swords, shields etc) are non-magical items. In order to add magical properties to them a player must add gems to them. These gems may be found, or crafted. A piece of equipment may only hold a certain amount of gems based on its current design. A player may only control a certain number of slots on all equipment at any one time based on level / skill levels. Equipment may be modified through crafters for the following: Add more slots, link slots. Unlike the FF7 system of spells, the gems in the game merely add effects to the item, generic effects will differ depending on the item they are attached to. Example: Fire - add fire damage to weapons, fire resistance to armor/shields. Poison - add add poison damage to weapons, poison resistance to armor/shields. Fire (link) Poison - add fire DOT to weapons, Fire damage shield to armor/shields. Combinations can cause some very unexpected effects, but leads to experimentation. What do you think?

hi, my team is currently making some kind of this like You said "growing equipment". base class of effect changes some of his parents fields. Effect can be applied to item, creature or to a field. Every basic effect consist only one change, but player can create some kind of combo of effects. f. e.
Effects are not magic power, but realization of creatures' spiritual energy (or will power). It could be material or non material effect.

- effect create item, f.e. arrow
- effect gain temperature (to item in previous effect)
- effect gain speed (to item in previous effect)
- effect gain duration (to stand for 10 seconds)
- effect delay (wait f.e. 3 sec)
- effect dispose (destroy item)

and we have fire ball :)

effect is also an upgrade like a scope to rifle, or bigger clip to pistol, silver layer on sword etc. There is also a possibility to make a graph of basic effect, not only a linear function. This could be interesting :)

one item can have only ONE effect or combo of effects.

Practically, what is the game play difference between "adding gems to an item" and "getting new items"?

If it is simply the matter of "I need an excuse to have more than 1 slot that upgrades the weapon", then you could have multi-slot items that contain sub components.

Your Sword could be a pommel, grip, guard, blade, and a gem in the pommel and on the guard.

Now, instead of generic "gems", most of your slots in your sword have a tactile nature.

Quote:

Practically, what is the game play difference between "adding gems to an item" and "getting new items"? If it is simply the matter of "I need an excuse to have more than 1 slot that upgrades the weapon", then you could have multi-slot items that contain sub components. Your Sword could be a pommel, grip, guard, blade, and a gem in the pommel and on the guard. Now, instead of generic "gems", most of your slots in your sword have a tactile nature.

Well the first is the possibility of being able to switch the abilities of your weapon on the fly. But the main thing is one of concept.

I have a concept that I like in both MMO's and PnP RPGs. That is one of you having a signature weapon/armor that grows with you as you advance. This is an RP concept of mine and one I've been trying to figure out how to do for a while.

I've had other ideas such as you being able to put forth a percentage of XP gained towards advancing you're weapon, and at certain weapon levels you get to choose what abilities your weapon gets. However these ideas rob the player of the LOOT concept. Loot has a very big factor in play...always getting that new item.

Getting new pommels, blades, guards, etc....while in a sense is the same concept as the generic "gems" do not keep the player with the same weapon...it just slowly changes the weapon from one to another....minor change, but one that is important.

If I have my fathers sword, then replace the pommel, then the guard, and the blade....i no longer have my fathers sword.

How about skills upgrades - specifically, magical skills? The character reaches a new level and gains new abilities, unlocking new forms/behaviors/whatever with the weapon. Think of your classic magical sword; it usually takes various trials for the hero to discover his "connection" to the blade, which enables him to perform increasingly impressive feats, etc.

Or you can dispense with found objects entirely and make weapons materialize from the player's magical state. As the character grows more powerful/confident, new armor forms, weapons and special attacks become available to him/her.

(I stole that from Power Rangers Mystic Force, which I found myself watching last night quite amused.)

Quote:

Original post by Oluseyi How about skills upgrades - specifically, magical skills? The character reaches a new level and gains new abilities, unlocking new forms/behaviors/whatever with the weapon. Think of your classic magical sword; it usually takes various trials for the hero to discover his "connection" to the blade, which enables him to perform increasingly impressive feats, etc. Or you can dispense with found objects entirely and make weapons materialize from the player's magical state. As the character grows more powerful/confident, new armor forms, weapons and special attacks become available to him/her. (I stole that from Power Rangers Mystic Force, which I found myself watching last night quite amused.)

I like the first idea...however my question is what do you do with the loot system....since we are not giving new weapons / armor and such

My question is : how dynamic is level progressing of player ?? i mean from level 1 to 1000 (with small steps) or from 1 to 10 (big steps, level up from time to time). In many games the gameplay is ruined by huge dynamic of creatures' level. When You play f.e. 10 days You are so strong You can beat any low enemy in single hit. I'm thinking about Arcanum, when player can gain few levels per a day of playing. Skills and weapon are also better with higher levels, but how fast the progress should be ?? I like Warhammer system because the progress is slow, and percentage tests, in other way a wimp can defeat a hero but it's quite rare. The most important thing is gameplay, not only making new skills, levels, spells etc. I think any absurd thing in a game is bad (like clerics in ADD can use ONLY blunt weapon, why ?), it should be a penalty instead of . When the level gap between the item and hero is very high the penalty will be very high, and item (or spell or something) will be useless. But what is the "minimum level required?" shouldn't be instead "minimum level without a penalty". The last thing is the threshold should be lover if the player is using that item for a long time (this and only this), something like "my favorite sword" or "my grandfather Axe". It is some kind of "growing item". I think it was used somewhere in cRPG.

And about getting new items and adding gems to them, i was thinking about changing items in the run-time (upgrade or dispose of them).

Quote:

Original post by robert4818 I like the first idea...however my question is what do you do with the loot system....since we are not giving new weapons / armor and such

Traditional loot is monetary goods, weapons and magical items that make the weapons more powerful (monetary goods can be exchanged for weapons or magical items). In a strict character advancement system, the loot is health/durability and magic/special attacks. Allow me to illustrate with an example:

In God of War whenever you killed an enemy, red orbs flew out of the enemy toward you. In addition, you could open chests to find a mass of red, blue or green orbs. Red orbs replenished your health, but also allowed you to increase your durability (the length of your health bar). Blue orbs powered your magical attacks. Green orbs were used at the end of each stage to level up, "purchasing" new magical attacks. In addition, you occasionally encountered visions/temples of the titans, who bequeathed you with special attacks like the Wrath of Zeus.

Now, God of War is a hack-and-slash adventure, not an RPG, but a lot of that system makes sense. In your context, as the player dispatches ordinary enemies he'd receive incremental skill bonuses, making him more capable with the weapon. When he dispatches magical enemies, he'd receive magic bonuses, enabling him to channel his abilities into the weapon and unleash new attacks.

Much of the traditional loot system is irrational, like opening every cupboard in every house you enter - while the occupants of the house say nothing! Having a system that is based purely on combat for core loot normalizes that without penalizing the player for bonuses.

Plus, you can still have monetary loot. Instead of purchasing weapons and magical gems, however, monies would be used to purchase food, lodging or clothing (the latter allowing players to customize the appearance of their avatar), but would be relatively unimportant, so looting doesn't become the focus of the game.

I've never been a fan of loot systems. It's nice as a gameplay dynamic, to add that sort of slot machine feel to questing, but in terms of immersion and roleplay, it may as well be glowing powerups floating two feet off the ground.

I've always been a fan of affinity systems, where your character becomes gradually more accustomed to his gear as he uses it, so that your common longsword gets more critical hits and deals more damage as you level up, but if you trade it for a broadsword you're going to have to take some time to readjust to the new implement, and if you grab a staff you have to start learning again from square one.

Magical or purpose-built or finely crafted gear might bestow bonuses to speed or armor piercing or add some secondary effect, but your character's skill and his familiarity with the individual device he's using would still be a primary factor in his performace. I like the idea of finding a legendary sword in the bowels of a dungeon and kind of sucking with it at first, maybe going back to your standard issue iron sword to fight your way out, then spending a couple hours getting acquainted with the new PUSD's balance and weight before being confident enough to bring it to bear against an adversary.

If you've ever played Kengo on the PS2, then you have an idea of my notion of the training system.

One way I think you could keep a loot system and still have upgradeable equipment is this:

Each weapon has a certain amount of uprades possible. Think of it this way, when you create a new slot in your weapon it weakens its natural strength slightly. Better built weapons will have more upgrades possible and poorer weapons will become useless with too many uprades.

Or you could take a FFVIII approach and let the player keep their initial weapon and let them add material to it to change it to a new atronger weapon. So the player will be collecting items to upgrade their weapons and those items don't need they can trade for ones they do need.