Quote: Original post by TheMeatMan
I don't see Linux users (who at this moment in time are highly technical people and therefore a very small market) paying for games. The Linux folks that I deal (personally and professionally) with bristle at the very thought of having to pay for any software.

Yeah, they also don't believe in paying for music, videos, or anything else they can get away with not paying for. Kids today, they got no respect.

Quote:
And until a non-technical person, or casual computer user, can install, and get up and running on the internet, Linux with as much 'difficulty' as Windows, it will not be a viable solution to those people. Also, there are driver issues to contend with especially for graphics cards - the support just isn't as solid as it is with Windows (again, because of the small market). As a business person you target the largest market possible, even if you don't agree with it (I love Macs, and I was an Amiga person too!).

The time when installing Linux and getting up on the internet was more difficult than Windows is long, long past. Oh, okay, you can go to Furure Shop or Best Buy or whatever your local geekshop is and have someone install Windows for you, and reinstall it every time something goes wrong. Since they won't do the same for Linux, it appears that Windows is easier and for most folks that's all that counts.

But the fact is, Linux is easier to install. If you don't want to do it yourself (why not? It's really that easy, but I understand many people fear computers) it's almost never a problem to find a neighbourhood geek who will do it for you, and it'll cost you a lot less than the commercial geekshop.

I have not had a problem with drivers for Linux in years, either. In fact, graphics appear better on my 7600GT under Linux (using nVidia's drivers) than under Windows, and I didn't have to install a whole slew of third-party drivers on Linux like I did on Windows, eveything just worked right out of the box. And, I've never had Linux crash. Windows running Oblivion on the same hardware crashes, hard crashes, regularly.

Nope, the problems with Linux are not technical. The problem is entirely in your first point, the people who expect to not pay for anything.

Compare installing Windows and Linux like this:
How many times do you have to input anything aside from the default OK button or a serial number. If a Linux installer requires less choices as default than windows it is simpler, otherwise it's not.

Letting your neighbour geek install it for you is just an admittance that Linux just isn't for everyone (yet).

Quote: Original post by A_Backman
Compare installing Windows and Linux like this:
How many times do you have to input anything aside from the default OK button or a serial number. If a Linux installer requires less choices as default than windows it is simpler, otherwise it's not.

In that case, installing a modern Linux distro is far, far simpler than installing XP.

Quote: Original post by A_Backman
Compare installing Windows and Linux like this:
How many times do you have to input anything aside from the default OK button or a serial number. If a Linux installer requires less choices as default than windows it is simpler, otherwise it's not.

Linux (Xandros 4.0 Premium): put CD in, boot. Enter root password, click next. Enter non-root username and password, click next. Wait for install to complete, remove disk, wait for reboot. Log in, start using system.

Windows XP: put CD in, boot. Walk through DOS-based disk formatting utility written using ANSI graphics. Exit, reboot. Wait while installer does stuff for about a half hour, enter serial number from disk, wait another 40 minutes. Watch computer reboot a couple of times. Finally, system is read, remove CD after another reboot, log in. Search through all the boxes for driver disks for things like the motherboard, video card, sound card, printer. Install each. Wait for reboot after each installation. Go in to work where there is a working internet connection, download up-to-date drivers that don't crash, go home, install newer drivers from freshly burned CD. Go downstairs where there is a telephone and make a toll-free call to talk to a computer and speak several seemingly random sequences of numbers and letters, write down another sequence of numbers and letters, go back to the computer and enter them in to some dialog, and your done.

Quote:
Letting your neighbour geek install it for you is just an admittance that Linux just isn't for everyone (yet).

The difference between Windows and Linux in this repect is that you can get your neighbourhood geek to install Linux. You have to pay a professional $50/hr to install Windows and it means leaving your computer in the shop for a week. That doesn't mean Linux isn't ready, it means Windows is easier because you can find professional services advertised in the telephone directory.

I installed Linux and Windows XP on the same computer. Anyone could have done the Linux installation (the barrier is fear) and it took 20 minutes. It took me literally days to get a working Windows installation, and I doubt just anoyone could have done it. I happen to have more than 3 decades of experience setting up computers, and I found it confusing and more than a little frustrating.

Bregma, you still need to install drivers on Linux.
For Windows, every company tends to offer a huge-all-in-one-driver, in a single setup.exe
Just double click and follow instructions and it's pretty automatic.

On Linux, usually it's a rpm and you need one specific to your distro.
And installing requires typing commands.
I'm using Suse for the moment. Some nice guy on rage3d.com gave me the instructions to install. If he hadn't given me the exact instructions, the exact command to type, I would not know what to do.
Previously, I had Fedora Core 3 just freshly installed. The ATI drivers would not install properly.

Joe_gamer_average needs detonator 90.84 for his nVidia 7800
If he doesn't install it, then Ultra-FPS won't run to max FPS
Lucky for him, he just needs to uninstall the old driver, reboot. Double click setup.exe

Secondly, the ATI drivers are inferior in Linux.

1. There are plenty of Linux distro's that ship the proprietry 3D drivers. It's just the Free distro's such as Debian and Ubuntu that don't ship them.
2. Even on the Free distro's, the proprietry drivers are available through the standard repositories. Click "install software". Click "Nvidia 3D driver" or "ATI 3D driver". Click "Install".
3. You don't need the 3D driver to have a fully working OS.

From the sound of it, I'd say the last time you tried Linux is quite a few years ago.

Original post by Sander

Quote: Original post by A_Backman
In that case, installing a modern Linux distro is far, far simpler than installing XP.

i second that.

the only big problem for average joe_user is installing (binary) software not bundled with your distro

numerous rpm dependancies make this a pretty scary experience, especially since every distro is packaging
and naming it's rpms differently

to quote my gf: "why the *beep* can't i install this piece of *beep* even if it says '.rpm'?" (on suse) ;)

Quote: Original post by Sander
1. There are plenty of Linux distro's that ship the proprietry 3D drivers. It's just the Free distro's such as Debian and Ubuntu that don't ship them.
2. Even on the Free distro's, the proprietry drivers are available through the standard repositories. Click "install software". Click "Nvidia 3D driver" or "ATI 3D driver". Click "Install".
3. You don't need the 3D driver to have a fully working OS.

From the sound of it, I'd say the last time you tried Linux is quite a few years ago.

1. I didn't know about that.
2. I'm using Suse 10.0
I haven't seen anything like that. Yum just updates what is already installed it seems or I don't know what I'm doing.
3. I know you can have a working Linux if you just install it but I'm interested in gaming and programming.

The UI in Suse is very nice. It's like a improved Windows XP.
It also gives access to the Windows partitions through konqerer and I didn't need to type commands. Unfortuatly there are inconsistencies in the UI.
Installing RPM means just clicking on the RPM and you can install it the graphical way. I haven't used that method to install drivers.

I use it on and off for 8 months now (Suse)
The others I've seen : Fedora, Debian, CentOS were behind Suse in terms of UI. Joe avergae would not know how to use it if it's not like Windows.
Knoppix wasn't bad but still.

Still haven't tried Slackware, Mandrake and Linspire.

You don't know what you are doing [wink]

Just read the Yum or Yast2 documentation. You can use it to install new software too. I'm pretty sure that the proprietry 3D drivers are in there, given the focus of Novel on XGL. The only thing you might need to do is add an extra repository. That's how Ubuntu does it anyway. I just add multiverse and install nvidia-glx through Synaptic. Easy!