Well thanks for all the replies,
This isn't something I can do in a few weeks by any means (just too busy). To make things more clear, I'm looking for a nice music solution for me to create deep-bass music in a matter of days/weeks. I'm both the lead programmer, the lead artist, and the lead designer of my GameDev.Net 4E5 Contest Entry. Therefore, I need to find a way to produce at least some nice music/sounds for the game. Most composers might not be willing to produce several free tracks along with sound (gunfire etc.) for the game (and only be recognized in the credits and introduction (i.e. not part of actual development) ). So I thought I could produce good tracks by myself, but that's probably not a good solution considering the deadline for my project is November 30th 2006. Thanks for the feedback anyway; I think I shall contact a friend of mine to see if he would work for free (doubtful considering the prize values of the contest).

Cheers,

You'd be surprised who will work for free if there's a decent enough contest involved, like the ones they have here at Gamedev. I mean, last years winner's game I believe is going commercial. I saw their press release on a few mainstream gaming sites...good for them. I bet their composer is digging the exposure.

What I'm saying is, if your project looks decent enough you may find a composer or SFX artist willing to take a risk. A contest can bring more exposure than just a regular indie released game and gives it more momentum to get finished in the first place!

Tony

Modtracker is a good program for music editing. it lets you change everything about a wav file so you can use any instruament and just mash stuff together until you find something you like

it is also free, go to www.castlex.com for it

or go for someone that already knows how to make music like someone else said, it could work out but be ready to pay if needed

Quote: Original post by anthemaudio
You'd be surprised who will work for free if there's a decent enough contest involved, like the ones they have here at Gamedev. I mean, last years winner's game I believe is going commercial. I saw their press release on a few mainstream gaming sites...good for them. I bet their composer is digging the exposure.

What I'm saying is, if your project looks decent enough you may find a composer or SFX artist willing to take a risk. A contest can bring more exposure than just a regular indie released game and gives it more momentum to get finished in the first place!

Tony

How many of the free ones are good? I know several good musicians who require pay (Sean B., Nathan Madsen so on), but only one or two who work for free (David Orr so on.) I mean, I'm looking for high quality, deep bass with a mix of violin/strings. I'm awaiting a reply from a (musician) friend of mine; until then..

Kind regards,

Quote: Original post by D Shankar
So, after all that typing, lets get down to business:
How come so many people claim to be musicians and want to be paid to score music? Where do they learn this talent? Is it that simple?

That's actually a very profound question!! I think there's several interesting reasons why this happens. First off, music is a part of a ton of peoples' early education, we often teach it in public schools and sometimes there's even band/choral requirements. So we have a whopping majority of people who experience producing music in some way or another, not to mention the fact that just about everyone in the world (who isn't deaf) experiences consuming it. It's omnipresent.

From there though, music is also (for some reason??) very attractive as a career, almost like a pie in the sky to people before they experience all the nitty-gritty of it.... and for some of us extra-twisted folks, even after that. Everyone wants to be a rock star, you look up at the stage and see these guys and just think, "that could be me!". I think that out of all the more "composed" musical outlets (eg. classical, film, games, TV, advertisements...), game music somehow seems the most tangible, especially oldschool Japanese soundtracks. There's something about the logic and simplicity 80s-90s Japanese game music style that made it sound like an invitation, "you can write music too!"; at the same time, it was also very effective, beautiful and even powerful music. So it encouraged a ton of newcomers (myself included), whereas the relatively more convoluted film score world almost seems to say "don't even try it, you won't get it" at first. Kinda like programming. :-P

Now add to that the intensely subjective nature of music - the idea of "good music" is far more nebulous than "good programming" or "good art", or even "good acting". What one person thinks is great another person thinks is crap, and the differences in quality are just getting blurred more and more with recent software developments. There's nothing stopping you from getting StylusRMX and Atmosphere, playing a loop in one and holding out a chord in the other, and sounding (at least ostensibly) just as good as some of the most experienced electronica producers out there. Even for more serious attempts, our production interfaces tend to have much easier learning curves than any of the other gamedev disciplines, and far more attractive/friendly-looking GUIs. Add to that all the neat hardware we get to use, and it's almost like we're getting paid to play with toys.

Speaking of payment, there's that fun myth as well - the idea that being a musician gets you tons of fame and fortune for (relatively) no work at all. I'm sure everyone who's informed enough to be a part of this site knows that that's not really the case except for like the top 0.000001% of composers, but what's even more distressing is that there isn't any work at all for anyone but the top 0.001%. Going into music is more like a vow of poverty than anything else - only thing closer would be perhaps an acting career, or, arguably, an actual vow of poverty. :-)


But basically, it's an extremely attractive field with tons of rewards (some real and some not), where the difficulties are far more subtle than in other disciplines. One of those strange jobs where it's way easier to actually *do* it than it is to *get* a job doing it ;-)



Wilbert Roget, II
Composer
RogetMusic.com

[Edited by - Will Roget on August 26, 2006 11:30:53 PM]

Quote: Original post by D Shankar
How many of the free ones are good?

Forgot to answer this one - Actually my opinion, surprisingly, is that for every composer willing to score your projects for $$$, you can find 2 more that are just about as good and willing to do it for free. Seems weird, but the catch is in the subtle difference between a startup-pro and an experienced hobbyist. The hobbyist may or may not require $$$, but either way does it for the fun factor, or to learn. The pro, however, still may or may not require $$$, but only does projects s/he feels will move him/her forward. Tons of people even at the highest strata still do music for free - Giacchino has done some free work, Robert Rodriguez wrote the score for Kill Bill 2 for only *** ONE DOLLAR ***. The difference often comes down to the project and who you can interest in scoring it; the quality of music unfortunately doesn't vary as much as we'd like you to think for $$$ vs. non-$$$.


(of course, if there's extraneous things like deadlines involved, $$$ can mean the difference between working on your score fulltime and working on it on the weekends after your 9-5 job ;))

Quote: Original post by Will Roget
Robert Rodriguez wrote the score for Kill Bill 2 for only *** ONE DOLLAR ***.

A little reality check is needed here. There were other ways he was going to make money, and a considerable amount, from that contract. There is no way he would have done that film if his only compensation was one dollar.

Yep, that's exactly the point - it wasn't the upfront money, it was the opportunity, residuals, and other factors involved. Moral of the story is that it's not a black and white issue, people work for free at all levels of the game. (no pun intended ;-))

When you're trying to move up in the industry (which in a way means pretty much everyone out there who isn't John Williams), it's more about the attractiveness of the project than the money. If it moves you forward, the money can come later or from other sources.

Quote: Original post by D Shankar
How come so many people claim to be musicians and want to be paid to score music?

Like Will said, it's a dream job.

Quote: Where do they learn this talent?

Some practice all of their lives, dedicate their entire career and energies to learning to play an instrument/compose/perform/record/mix/master/etc. music,, make great sacrifices and ask the same from their families and children, because they simply just can't see themselves doing anything else other than making music, and have found themselves in digital gaming because of the strange, cool challenge of working in a nascent, exciting, technologically-advanced medium with almost unlimited potential for emotional expression, from psychotically vicious to heartbreakingly, timelessly poignant. Some just throw together a few pre-bought loops in Fruity Loops, mess with the tempo (speed), toss some of it through a flanger and call it a day.

Quote: Is it that simple?

No.

Duncan

I am a bit perplexed at the meaning of this thread but will try to offer some insight regardless...You do not GET talent but are rather born with it. Ability and talent are both very different animals. Whereas talent will only help someone get so far (to their ceiling), ability is often far more important in crafting a better musician. However, Ability is also much harder to build...it involves painstaking study and immersion in the craft. There is no easy way to get good. An element of luck is involved with the process as well. You could have all the talent in the world but if you cannot communicate and network, no one is ever going to know it. Work slowly, yet surely within your own musical understanding and you will reap the rewards

Ryan