Say there was a 4X game where players could compete online for prize money. There would be, say, 25 competitors on a map, each of them having paid $100 dollars to play. The winner, or the members of a victorious alliance, would receive some prize money after victory conditions were met. Any reactions to this?

Ab wrote:

Quote: Say there was a 4X game where players could compete online for prize money. There would be, say, 25 competitors on a map, each of them having paid $100 dollars to play. The winner, or the members of a victorious alliance, would receive some prize money after victory conditions were met.
Any reactions to this?

1. What is "a 4X game"?
2. If only one person was crazy enough to actually give you $100, how much are you going to give him back? He wouldn't be happy if he only got his money back (and you wouldn't be happy either, since you didn't make any money).
3. I guess what I was trying to say in #2 was, "Wow! A hundred dollars?? Who the heck is gonna pay that much to participate in a '4X game,' whatever the heck that is?"

Okay, now the next person to post will prove me to be an idiot by not only knowing what a 4X game is but also posting some facts and figures showing that 4X games are hugely popular and people all over the world are shelling out money by the fistful to play them...

Quote: 1. What is "a 4X game"?

OK, I just looked it up on Wikipedia. It means a Civ-style game. Still don't know how you're gonna get people to fork out a hundred bucks to play it...?

(And yes, I acknowledge myself to be an idiot 5 times over for not having already known what 4X meant.)

Well, the idea was that only the winner(s) get some of the money. Say if one guy conquered everyone else, he'd get $1000. But we wouldn't call it gambling, heh heh, we'd call it "prize money."

I guess my real question, which no one here is probably qualified to answer, is if this scheme or any similar variant thereof is legal and/or has been implemented.

Say that when you attacked another unit in this hypothetical 4X game, you played a chess-like game with your opponent and were handicapped according to your unit strength relative to his. Now, this chess-like game is awesome enough that players will pay 5 dollars a month to play the chess-like game with other players, but they have to pay 100 dollars to actually start up a 4X map. If you said the prize money was coming from subscription money, would anyone believe you?

Does anyone know of any online games that give out prizes/money?

ab wrote:
>we wouldn't call it gambling, heh heh, we'd call it "prize money."
>I guess my real question,

Yes, always a good idea to go right ahead and ask the real question. Usually works out better all around.

>is if this scheme or any similar variant thereof is legal

You'd need to ask your lawyer that one.

>and/or has been implemented.

You mean, only insofar as 4X games are concerned?

>this chess-like game is awesome enough that players will pay 5 dollars a month to play the chess-like game with other players, but they have to pay 100 dollars to actually start up a 4X map.

As I asked before - how do you expect to actually entice anyone to fork over that much?

>If you said the prize money was coming from subscription money, would anyone believe you?

I suppose some people would. Have we veered away from the real question now?

>Does anyone know of any online games that give out prizes/money?

Yes, sure, somebody does. Surely that isn't the real question...

I guess the real question is "can you award money to subscribing players for in-game success?"

I've heard of sites like skilljam, where supposedly you can legally play for money. Magic: The Gathering Online will send a player a complete set of real world cards if he collects all the electronic cards from that edition--since the e-cards are tied to RW cards, the in-game economy doesn't get out of control.

The "4X world" and "modified chess game" are just simplifications to get the idea across.

Fantasy football seems to be legal in most states, skilljam.com seems to be up and running...so I'm wondering. The main point of entry fees is to make players invest in the actual instance of the game, ensuring a good match and dissuading unserious players. The main point of the cash reward is to stimulate evolving strategies.

Is that "ask a game lawyer" thing still active?

ab wrote:
>The "4X world" and "modified chess game" are just simplifications to get the idea across.

Knew that.

>Fantasy football seems to be legal in most states, skilljam.com seems to be up and running...so I'm wondering.

See? Someone does indeed know [the answer to one of the questions you asked before].

>The main point of entry fees is to make players invest in the actual instance of the game, ensuring a good match and dissuading unserious players.

Sure, but... $100??

>The main point of the cash reward is to stimulate evolving strategies.

Doesn't really matter.

>Is that "ask a game lawyer" thing still active?

You guessed it.

Quote: The main point of entry fees is to make players invest in the actual instance of the game, ensuring a good match and dissuading unserious players.

So, each player lays out some cash and the winner gets the jackpot. Your "game" sets it up and administrates the payout like a bookie and potentially takes a cut on each game instance. I don't see this as any different than people betting on the outcome of a pool game in a bar. It's called gambling. Depending on your location, that may be either illegal or heavily regulated. This is where the "you need a lawyer" thingy comes in.

Well, the laws vary from country to country. (There is an option in Magic Online where it says "My country does not support prize payout" or something like that).

They also offer prizes in the form of their product (the cards).

I think the major difference between gambling and prize payout is that with prize payout, the amount/prize, must be announced beforehand. (IE is not determined by the cash amount/number players). I might be wrong on this.

I asked a lawyer friend one day about this and he brought me the copy of our (South Africa) gambling laws. I felt stupid and confused after reading paragraph one. He wasn't even able to give me definative answer (although gambling law wasn't his field). I don't have the money to pay a lawyer to find out for me.

Quote: Original post by abstractimmersion
Any reactions to this?

You need to talk to a lawyer who specialises in gaming (as in gambling). You really don't want to make a mistake and find out later (when you are being prosecuted) that it is actually considered to be gambling.