Hello GameDev forum, Well, its been a while but I finally textured this model. Since the last post of -Building my demo 3/4- I am building my demo from scratch, and wish to attain work in the Game industry for next gen systems. The advice out here on GameDev has helped a lot and thanks, I thought I would show where this is at now. So since last time I have: -Adjusted the model for better flexibility, and tried to close off edge loops in less deformation areas. -Cut back the poly count to 2855 -And added the texuture map I think my character lacks "character", but I hope if I can learn about good form (and get better at texturing) then that will put me on the right road to understanding good charater building, I would appreciate your comments, ideas, advice, etc Overall, I think I might call it done now and start with another. -enjoy yourself- Thanks Take care Zlehaklif2

Oh ya, here is the texture maps. 2 at 512x512

Thanks again Game Dev,

Zlehaklif2

looks good, my only critique is that the cloth.... lacks the look of cloth. that is unless you're going for completly skin tight cloths, but even then i think there should be a wrinkle or two in the goemtry or atleast the texture.
other then that, good job, glad to see edge loops in the face and quads everywhere.

WOW! Things are looking much better. Some compliments:

-Efficiency is greatly improved.
-Texture is very good for a first attempt, even for a second attempt I'd say.
-Jeans are very good (used a photo? If so, you used it well, photos aren't 'cheating' as long as you're not stealing them). I like the detail like fading the bottoms of the jeans, but take that a bit further and stronger. You can tell it was just Dodged, and not really part of the texture.
-Overall good edgeflow.

Model critique:
-Parametization can be improved... some loops, specifically on the butt and shoulders can be more even.
-You can still collapse some edge loops, such as on the butt, and face especially.
-Define her butt with another edge loop that seperates it from the thigh.
-I know she was designed with wide hips, but see how it looks if you put a lattice on her lower half and shrink it sideways. I think it'll look alot better overall.
-Her shoulders come out too far, look at how an arm bone properly connects to the shoulder, and where. Right now its too far out, and while only looking moderately out of place (I missed it the first time I went over your screens), will create massive deformation problems.

Texture critique:
-Photo some similar girls in similar tops, and try to reproduce what you see... the cloth, as stated, isn't very convincing. Cloth is hard, just practice, practice, practice. And once your done dodging and burning, put some colors into the shadows (ie, not just light and dark pink). You can actually get away with some radical and intense colors, especially in shadows, and it will make your texture more lively.
-The skin texture has a long, long way to go, and is easily the weakest part of the whole piece. If you're interested, I can give a more in-depth skin texturing tutorial, but only if you are willing to do it (as it will take some time to write up). Or you can use photos for skin, which I also suggest, as it will teach you alot of neccessary photoshop skills, that even painting won't teach you.

take a look at one of my guys i just got done creating here, i exaggerated the cloth for you just to see how it can be done by simply using a normal map, but if ou don't want to use a normal map you can bake the normal mapping into the main diffuse texture for added looks.

p.s. i know my guys hand loosk off, i am working on it.

Well, I don't know what your art background is so it's hard to say whether this represents a substantial improvement or not.

Anyway, the proportions immediately caught my attention as unnatural. The hips are too high (and a little wide) and the head is too small. While it's true that there are still a lot of optimizations to be made for the model's poly flow, I think at this point that the parameterization should be the least of your concerns. Work on the basics of form and proportions first. I would suggest looking for artistic photo reference of actual humans. Even if you're attempting to create a more cartoony or stylized feel, understanding the nuances of real human proportions will give you a better idea of what features you can exagerate without losing the human element.

Overall, it's better than many of the first-time character models that I've seen posted on this site before, but it still needs a lot of work. If you're interested I could do a paint-over of your image to offer suggestions for modifications, but I think you'll get similar or better results from photo or anatomy reference.

Jarrod, I like you, but I wouldn't use that model as a reference for anyone else... there are a plethora of problems with it. The best reference is always real life.

Worldplanter, if you want to do some searching, you can see the critiques that have already been addressed regarding the model, but there is alot (disproportionately perhaps for a single character like this, but that's how we learn, eh?), so its up to you.

Perhaps I should let Zlehaklif respond, but I don't see whats wrong with the stylized proportions. Obviously they are way off for a real human, but I don't think that lack of essential human element that plagues so many artist's early stylized work (where they call them stylized because they can't successfully make a real looking human) is definately there. The proportions are similar enough to actual human beings, and the balance and mechanical aspects all seem to make sense (except, as mentioned, the shoulders).

Quote: Original post by Professor420
Jarrod, I like you, but I wouldn't use that model as a reference for anyone else... there are a plethora of problems with it. The best reference is always real life.

care to pm me the details of what is wrong to you (to keep from spamming his thread). i am getting better as time goes by, bu that is only my third attempt at a human model, so i obviously still have a lot of room to improve from pure practice.

Heya ,
Im glad to have you all address my deal with building charater. And thanks a lot for the compliments. It makes it worthwhile

I will definitely address better cloth for the shirt, and will address the actual model advice listed Prof 420, I would be very stoked to learn a good technique of painting skin. I got most of my ideas from the CG societys forums. To me though, its not easy to spot what to look for in making proper skin textures. So yea, if you got a while to type that up I would definitely try it. thanks!

Worldplanter, I will look more at anatomy when building, and although I am not aiming for total realism, if there are places I can better it, Ill go for it - Thanks. As far as it goes for building the human form accurately or stylized within a game, I am sure it would depend on the style of game. And if I got a job doing it, I would have to meet that bar. To me, the characters in games that have captivated my interest have always been more like toys than realistic to the letter. Thats the approach I came to make this one.

I learn a lot from this discussion so thank you all.
Peace
Zlehaklif

Leigh's texturing Tutorials

They're pretty invaluable if you want to get better at photoshop texturing. As far as critiquing your work goes, it's hard to judge what you have without knowing what you're trying to do. If you're going for realistic, proportions do need focus and you're going to need more textures than a simple color map. If you're going for a stylized look, it's developing - though I would suggest creating all your textures from scratch or don't texture at all. If you're showing off your modeling a nice grayscale is really better.

You should also consider what role the character would play if she would be placed in a game, a background character can get away with a lot less animation detail in the face (because they won't have speaking closeups). I'm aware this is practice for your demo, just some thoughts to keep in mind.

If you optimize the polycount a lot more in areas it's not essential you can use those polys to add detail where it's needed (like making the clothing a bit more defined and/or adding areas for it to flow a bit when animated.

Think about what you want to be, test out each field and find one you love the most and excel at it... Jacks of all trades, masters of nothing have trouble finding work in this industry, especially the higher up you go. Take this time to try your best at all facets of 3D (Character Modeler, Environmental Modeler, Texturist, Animator, Lighting TD, Character TD, Effects) and find the one that's right for you.

Your demo reel should reflect that as well. Having a little of everything doesn't do as well as having real quality models, textures, effects, or animations. Your reel is more apt to stand out if it's specialized as well.

Not sure if I was any help or not, but you're definitely heading in the right direction. As long as your motivation doesn't fade anytime soon I'm sure you'll get where you want to be.

Good luck to you :)