You could consider making it so that the cave troll can not level up. Effectivelly the cave troll starts with the strength of a level 80 character in a level 100 max game. Expanding from here it would be possible that only a player who has reached level 80 or 100 can be a cave troll. The benifit to the player would be that the troll is a RP tool but also could be level 80 equivalent but have level 120 offence but level 40 defence, allowing a well played cave troll to mow though opponents before they can touch him but a mistake will end in permadeath...

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Original post by trapdoor Well in total, i have 4 factions. the typical Human-elf-dwarf group. The Horde group. The Infernal Legion. They are the undead and demonic group.

Why so similar to Warcraft III?

Aside from the name, it is different form WC3. Their goals are different, asside from having a few undead and demons, the other races for the Legion are different. Then the 4th class altogether is unique to WC3. The Legion from WC3 wanted nothing more than total destruction of everything. The Infernal Legion (Which is just a temporary name for now) are outcasts than the actual demon legion itself.

I originally had Trolls as being able to be both Warriors and Rangers, but that was the DnD model. I'd probably have to restrict it to just warriors if i want then to be power houses. I think being very prone to ranged attacks is what will be the major weakness for Trolls. That and only being able to attack at night without speed penalties because of light plus many other penalties willl allow for trolls to be superior in strength yet still balanced.


I guess I also had a scewed view of what balanced really meant. I figured balanced meant that 1-on-1 it should be 50/50 as to the outcome. Or at least have rock/paper/scisors. I think with what I have as far as troll weaknesses and strengths, they are at least accepted now. I know they still need more balancing but it's not like it's outright being opposed.

Here's how you balance races:

Make one race insanely uber. Everyone will choose that race, and the game will be perfectly balanced. Bam.

I remember playing America's Army a year or so ago. There was one map in particular that i'm refering to ... the bridge map. For those who haven't played it, it looks something like this. A bridge with two towers at either end. Teams start somewhere behind either tower. Defense is to prevent the other team (assault) from crossing.

Anyway. for a long time, Defense was a walk in the park. It was unbelieveable how easy it was to be defense. Everyone wanted to be D. People stuck on Assault cried out for balance. The US Army did little to balance the map. They did minor tweaks here and there but essentially nothing was done.

Then something happened. Assault started to win more often then not. People on Assault finally learned how to beat the defense. They learned how to lay down smoke, get snipers into position, lay covering fire while a few brave men ran down to win the map. Others learned to use their grenade launchers on the bottom of their 203 as mortars. It was quite something to see.

Keeping Trolls as powerhouses and maybe enforcing the character cap % that can be trolls but giving them plenty of weaknesses can work in the long run. People will complain like crazy until a few true heros learn how to exploit the weaknesses of the trolls. Once the word gets out on how to defeat them, everything will change and the only people left complaining will be those who just can't figure out how to play anyway.

hmm

I think balancing is needed, though not complete balancing.

your cave troll might have 100 strength and HP but no magic ability, very low speed and agility, and because of its size, armor/weapons would cost a fortune.

different upsides can have their downsides.

But what you should never do in a MOG, is make things unlockable. skill+EPIX=unbeatable...

Or you could go with the traditional total-balance thing where everyone has 25 on all stats and gains about 3 per level, but thats just boring!!!

This is probably pretty obvious, but...

If we say a level 1 cave troll is a rough match for a level 10 human, then an easy way to balance trolls and humans is to only allow people to sacrifice a level 10 human character in exchange for a level 1 cave troll character.

Edit: One of their own level 10 human characters, that is. Not somebody else's.

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Original post by Nathan Baum This is probably pretty obvious, but... If we say a level 1 cave troll is a rough match for a level 10 human, then an easy way to balance trolls and humans is to only allow people to sacrifice a level 10 human character in exchange for a level 1 cave troll character. Edit: One of their own level 10 human characters, that is. Not somebody else's.

Although that could make PvP a little more interesting. [grin]

But I think the media would have a field day if human sacrifices were made part of various quests.

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Original post by trapdoor The reason i'm very reluctant to balance the trolls out to make everyone happy, is that in no game have I ever been afraid of another player my own level. Sure when a level 60 runs in while the other is only 30 is one thing, but when both characters are 30, they fight thinking each can take the other. There's no sense of fear. In LOTR, Boromir said, "They have a cave troll!" in such a way that it's as if there's nothing left to go wrong. I want the same kind of feeling in my game. That when another group shows up with a cave troll (so it's either Horde vs Beast, Horde vs Alliance or whatever), the other group groans and says "Oh hell. A cave troll!" or something to that matter.

You need to play WWII:Online then. There is some side balance in firepower but not in a item to item way. If you're an infetry and see a tank you better run. If you're a tank and see a 88 it's too late to run. A tiger tank will scare the crap out of you if you're an allied palyer. At any point in the game one side or the other has a weapons advantage (and they try to keep it) choices made by the players effect how the ballance changes. The Germans weapons are mostly each a better weapon but the allies tend to have more per item and greater number of choices.

You could lok at a system simiular to that. If you want the trolls you may need to give something else up or earn more "points" to spend on them in some manner, battle wins, quests compleated.. Either way someone is gong to complain about it.

I had a unique idea the other day. As i have mentioned, i want the allies to have to work together were other factions are soloable. This is how I'll do it.

Each character for the Kingdom (Human, elf, dwarf...) is weaker than any other faction character in 1-on-1 (Orc, Centaur, Troll, Vampire...). But here's the twist. Each Kingdom character has a group buff much like WoW's Paladins. The type of buff depends on the class. So long as the party is within 60 yards of each other, they all benefit... and the buffs are stackable. So lets say Dwarves have a strength buff, Elves = dex, human's have a half strength / half int. A group of 3 dwarves, 2 elves and a human will have 3.5 ? Strength, 0.5 ? int, 2 ? dex (The ? is half the character's level). And those are bonuses not the actual stats. So in a group, the alliance is just as good, if not better than groups of other factions.

I may even put Dwarves as having profiency in killing trolls. So a group of dwarves can easily take out trolls if they are grouped together.