I was thinking about the lack of good pirate games. The few that went out in the past years were really lacking IMO. I found this strange, arent pirates stories the most exciting of all? I think part of the problem is the way you navigate in pirates games. They all use a similar top-down view. Gaming still have a thing or two to learn from cinematography. A good pirates movie would never show the action from a long shot of the ship, top-down or not. They would only use a long-shot to express the passage of time. Naval battles are meant to be shown in full or close shots of the ships, or from the deck. What I would like is a pirates game where you play on the deck(s) of the ship. First person. You can go to the ship's wheel and control the rudder, you can go to the cannons and aim yourself, you can climb up the great mast, etc. And when you are on deck, you better watch out for the boom, it'll knock you down to the sea! Which lead me to think, well, you do need to control the ship, at least partially, wherever you are, and the cannons too. So I thought you could do this by shouting orders. Like in the submarines games, if you are in the sonar room, you can still use the radio to fire the torpedoes!. So you can control everything by shouting orders, but if you want to do it yourself, you can. Maybe its my sailing experience, but I would find it much much exciting to actually be on deck. Well, what do you think? Later Im gonna write about naval swordfights.

3 sounds: four - eee - four.

Are you sure you aren't confusing pirates with sailing ships? You lament the lack of good pirate games, but from the content of your post, I'd say you're looking for a good naval combat game set in the age of fighting sail. Pirates aren't the only ones that cross the T and fire broadsides.

I suspect you're after something like being Oliver Perry at the Battle of Put-In Bay, where he got his ass handed to him, hopped in a dinghy, rowed to another ship and proceeded to command his fleet to a nearly magical victory over the British.

Pirates have to be boarding ships and murdering passengers and running away from the military and ransoming hostages all the time. I prefer the Sid Meier version, where it's all concertina playing and swashbuckling and wooing governor's daughters with your rugged good looks and witty banter and DDR skills.

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Original post by Iron Chef Carnage Pirates aren't the only ones that cross the T and fire broadsides.

No, but its an (almost) essential part, so I thought I would begin by it. But yes, my comments could apply to games without any pirates. I think there was never a game with a "master and commander" feeling. Why do pirate games always have to be cartoonish? I want crash and blood and smoke.

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Original post by Steadtler Quote: Original post by Iron Chef Carnage Pirates aren't the only ones that cross the T and fire broadsides. No, but its an (almost) essential part, so I thought I would begin by it. But yes, my comments could apply to games without any pirates. I think there was never a game with a "master and commander" feeling. Why do pirate games always have to be cartoonish? I want crash and blood and smoke.

Same here, Pirates and Priviteers on the high seas in the age of sail!! I looked at Sid Meier's game, but it doesn't really look to have much in the way of highseas combat. A game with options for how real you want the sailing to be, from simple values for speed and how fast they can turn, to full simiulated wind/speed angles where you have to give orders to trim sails correctly.

A fully recreated "new world" (or atleast the area around the gulf) where you have a few choices, from playing a 'good guy' and trying to run a colony, to raiding colonies for gold, booze, and slaves. that is what we need.

I agree. I have been looking for a game where you can do these things. I have only sailed a few times, but from the books i read, a game like this would be amazing. Go with the idea. Make it into something good!

Thanks for the encouragements. Sadly, I dont think the Torque engine (which I work with) is technically appropriate for that. So right now its only design thinking.

So, naval swordfights.

What I think is missing in those games is the feeling of confusion of such fights. Passing the artistic considerations (smoke, sound, etc), this implies several gameplay elements. First, people. Its supposed to be a melee, not a duel or several people dueling together. Then, you need freedom of movement. Not only on the decks of the ships but also climbing to the mast, moving below the deck, swinging on ropes, jumping over barrels. Finally, what is needed is possibilities, mainly interaction with the ships themselves. Cutting ropes to make pulleys fall down and booms swing. Sending people over board. Using a cannon to make a hole in the wall. Setting fire to the powder hold. Sliping in a pool of blood. Making the enemy captain swallow his parrot. Ok, maybe thats too far.

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I dont know how realistic I could make the sailing. Ive never used more than 3 sails on my tanzer 22 (mainsail, jib, and spinnaker). Maybe trimming the sails is a bit too far as for realism, but you could, in 'advanced' mode, give orders to make the crew execute the most basic maneuvers: rising/droping the sails, Tacking and Jibing.

I think gameplay should concentrate on action, it should not become a sailing simulation either...

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Original post by Steadtler So, naval swordfights. What I think is missing in those games is the feeling of confusion of such fights. Passing the artistic considerations (smoke, sound, etc), this implies several gameplay elements. First, people. Its supposed to be a melee, not a duel or several people dueling together. Then, you need freedom of movement. Not only on the decks of the ships but also climbing to the mast, moving below the deck, swinging on ropes, jumping over barrels. Finally, what is needed is possibilities, mainly interaction with the ships themselves. Cutting ropes to make pulleys fall down and booms swing. Sending people over board. Using a cannon to make a hole in the wall. Setting fire to the powder hold. Sliping in a pool of blood. Making the enemy captain swallow his parrot. Ok, maybe thats too far.

While I love swordfighting games and those kind of pirate scenes are awesome in movies, I suspect the kind of stuff you're talking about is awful impractical both as far as control and usefulness in a fight. As cool as climbing the mast and riding down the rigging is, if I were fighting with a guy who had a pointy stick made of metal my first impulse would not be to occupy my hands with climbing a wooden pole. [wink]

The AI for such a system would be through the roof. You'd need your crew to be acting appropriately all the time. Actually, I think that some kind of feedback-based learning AI would really do that well. Something like Wonder Project J meets The Sims on a sailing ship.

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Original post by Frequency While I love swordfighting games and those kind of pirate scenes are awesome in movies, I suspect the kind of stuff you're talking about is awful impractical both as far as control and usefulness in a fight. As cool as climbing the mast and riding down the rigging is, if I were fighting with a guy who had a pointy stick made of metal my first impulse would not be to occupy my hands with climbing a wooden pole. [wink]

You didnt read Treasure Island ! The idea is to climb first, then discharge your pistols if anyone tries to climb up to you. Then you have time to recharge...

pointy metal stick? this is the gunpowder age! Ok, I did say "naval swordfight". Still, its all about giving the player (and the AI) more possibilities.